The Moopy Celebrity "Cancellation" Tracker

RaspberrySwirl said:
Which again is another testament to how these well meaning, tolerant people implicitely imply that anything that’s not white/western is of a lower status and therefor must be protected or treated differently.
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This is my problem with it. White people speaking for - and in the examples above, over - the cultures in question is far more damaging. It’s like saying ‘we know best, what you think doesn’t really matter’.
 
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"If I were from a minority" suggested otherwise hun
 
We’re ALL a minority of some kind.

Again, how white-centric of you to think that you’re in a majority, when the white race is in fact a minority.

(Don’t mind me, I’m pulling your leg)
 
MY SU CENTS:

I think looking at intent is always the most important thing to do - is the intent to make money or to mock the culture in some way? To me, Adele's intent was to draw tribute and attention to the Notting Hill Carnival, an event which started in response to racial tensions and still receives criticism from the usual suspects every year. Adele's intent doesn't seem to be to make money from the event or the mock the Caribbean culture, merely to highlight that it's a shame that it can't go ahead this year. As octophone says, being invited to attend an event and embrace the cultural aspects does not show bad intentions and is more cultural appreciation, than cultural appropriation.

By contrast, examples of cultural appropriation that have financial intentions such as stealing artwork to make T-shirts or mocking intentions such as blackface or Gwen Stefani's Harajuka girls should always be called out.
 
I think cultural appropriation started out as calling out white people making money out of pinching bits and pieces from POC and either claiming the invention or monetising it (or both). To draw it down to "you can't have that hairstyle for one day on your holidays" surely weakens the concept and makes the notion appear frivolous. Maybe that's the aim.

The entire history of rock 'n' pop is cultural appropriation whit large. Elvis Presley's role was to sell black music to white people who didn't like black people. Not his fault as such but absolutely what was afoot.
 
Adele seemed to double down during the Brandy & Monica live stream last night :bad:

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The Adele thing seems a bit of an anomaly to me, as it's REALLY NOT THAT WEIRD in the UK to see white people who have grown up in parts of the country alongside several generations of Jamaican diaspora (now obviously British people) dress that way at carnival. Adele is from London, and I assume has been to carnival most of her life, at least pre-fame.
It's a total celebration, and not seen by people of Jamaican origin as offensive AT ALL as far as I'm aware (and judging by the majority of their voices online, they REALLY do not care).

It is a context thing though. If Adele randomly turned up to a party dressed like that it would be unquestionably horrendously racist.
 
Yeah I agree, of course there is context and nuance to consider when it comes to these things BUT she really should have had the sense to see how an image like that could be taken when that context isn't really there, to people not familiar with the event.

She has enough goodwill on her side for this not to make much of an impact in terms of 'cancellation' at all, but it does strike me as ill-advised.
 
dUb said:
Yeah I agree, of course there is context and nuance to consider when it comes to these things BUT she really should have had the sense to see how an image like that could be taken when that context isn't really there, to people not familiar with the event.
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Yes 100% this!
 
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I also wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of "Adele at Carnival" Halloween outfits this year either, which indicates that - despite the context of Carnival - it probably wasn't THE BEST IDEA to post that picture in the first place :eyes:
 
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Cancel those people for even having Halloween parties at all! It won't be safe by then :shock:
 
I'm not sure the jump between "Adele should have realised how the picture could have been interpreted" and "Adele needs to look at everything she does based on the worst possible interpretation and act accordingly" is as lengthy as all that.

The photo I've seen is clearly not posed. If it was a promo shot for a new album, that context would make it indefensible.
 
dUb said:
Yeah I agree, of course there is context and nuance to consider when it comes to these things BUT she really should have had the sense to see how an image like that could be taken when that context isn't really there, to people not familiar with the event.
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am I alone in thinking that the onus is on the people who comment/criticize without investigating any given context before jumping the jark?
 
Mats said:
am I alone in thinking that the onus is on the people who comment/criticize without investigating any given context before jumping the jark?
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I was just about to say. The lesson here is ALWAYS GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT before throwing labels on people.
 
Sorry, but a group of white people decreeing this to have been asbsolutely fine and criticising anyone who would take exception to her doing it - not to mention completely ignoring criticism from a Black person's perspective in the thread - doesn't sit right with me at all. Apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone's ethnicity when I say that.
 
dUb said:
Sorry, but a group of white people decreeing this to have been asbsolutely fine and criticising anyone who would take exception to her doing it - not to mention completely ignoring criticism from a Black person's perspective in the thread - doesn't sit right with me at all. Apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone's ethnicity when I say that.
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I wouldn't say that white people have decreed anything. It's just an observation.

wurst said:
It's a total celebration, and not seen by people of Jamaican origin as offensive AT ALL as far as I'm aware (and judging by the majority of their voices online, they REALLY do not care).
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White people are also the ones shouting Cultural Appropriation when it isn't, so white people can (and should) push back on it as well. Minorities shouldn't be expected to do all the educating themselves. And to reiterate a point from earlier, white people should be taking part in much more meaningful efforts to address the inequality that is the root cause of issues of Cultural Appropriation.
 
I've never found much value in standpoint theory, which dUb is referencing.

I can't imagine anything less solidaristic than the idea that only minorities (and only those minorities whose views conveniently line up with various liberal doctrines) are capable of understanding what is and isn't oppression. It seems antithetical to the whole project. How are you supposed to end racism when you tell black people that well-meaning allies from a different race are closet bigots who will never truly understand them and could turn at any second?

When white leftists consistently have more progressive views on race than minorities themselves (I'm sure people are bored of me posting this link), is this ignorance of the black perspective, or is it something else? There's an argument that the left's obsession with surface issues like cultural appropriation and media representation are a shield for some fairly conservative politics. They pontificate about systemic racism but their solutions are all individual. It's trickle-down equality.

Unsurprisingly, these pundits often end up advocating a woke version of segregation on cultural matters. Contemporary anti-racism requires racism to become an endless force which can never be overcome. Coincidentally, the corporate diversity training industry is now pulling in $8bn per year in the US.
 
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Mugatu said:
these pundits often end up advocating a woke version of segregation
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This is exactly it. A lot of people seem to heartily endorse othering non-white cultures and traditions to 'protect' them. The upshot is different cultures being forced to inhabit different spaces - with overlap rigidly controlled and frowned upon - and a lot of head scratching as to why racism hasn't magically disappeared.
 
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Monica was the best.
Ross was the worst. He can rot in hell.
 
dUb said:
Yeah I agree, of course there is context and nuance to consider when it comes to these things BUT she really should have had the sense to see how an image like that could be taken when that context isn't really there, to people not familiar with the event.

She has enough goodwill on her side for this not to make much of an impact in terms of 'cancellation' at all, but it does strike me as ill-advised.
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I disagree. I don’t think anyone should have to think about what works for the media or for photographers or for Twitter before going out for the day. I agree on Suomis point about intent; if Adele had done this as a stunt or was trying to gain clicks or likes or raise a debate then maybe. Nobody can say for sure but I don’t think many people believe that Adele is interested in any of that.

we could all sit here and argue and say “oh well she’s famous, she should know better” but I don’t believe anyone owes the media anything unless they are actively seeking attention. If Kim Kardashian had done this and coordinated with her publicist to get it out there it would be a different story. I would bet that Adele wore it because she actually wanted to, like a normal person and takes the opinion of her mates over Pauline from Barnsley (poor Pauline)
 
There is also an IRONY in the fact that I’ve
spent several pages debating it when I hate the fact that these things become talking points in the first place. In my head she was just going out for a beer. She wore a costume. They weren’t nazi symbols, she was celebrating a festival.

And not a single person on moopy including myself is any kind of expert on cultural appropriation. We are just an extension of Twitter on the whole subject.

ugh, humans, etc
 
Needless to say, I disagree with you right back. But I've said my piece on the topic and this thread is exhausting so catch me in Mariah Misc
 
If only the (supposed) thousands of people who are routinely outraged by pop stars dressing up for a celebration, were equally as outraged by homelessness, global poverty, inequality, illegal wars, refugees drowning in the Mediterranean etc, maybe we'd actually have a shot at making the planet a better place to exist on.
 
HeLikedTurner said:
If only the (supposed) thousands of people who are routinely outraged by pop stars dressing up for a celebration, were equally as outraged by homelessness, global poverty, inequality, illegal wars, refugees drowning in the Mediterranean etc, maybe we'd actually have a shot at making the planet a better place to exist on.
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that’s a false equivalence - it is possible to care about multiple issues at once.
 
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Suomi said:
that’s a false equivalence - it is possible to care about multiple issues at once.
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In theory yes, but you’d be surprised how many of the “outraged” don’t give the slightest shit about these other issues. I’ve seen it myself.
 
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