Tags Discussion

[VoR]

And I'm biting here but the bulk of people saying yes are also going to be the people who have never gotten hurt/targeted. Which teeters on the majority speaking for a minority of posters.

This is my problem, and was something I found quite disturbing when this issue first raised its ugly head. Certain sections of Moopy appeared much more interested in defending their right to be mean to people anonymously than actually listening to people who had been caused genuine emotional pain.

I liked tags, a lot of them were very funny. I also liked Moopyrate. I feel strongly that both have had their day.

 

[AGinAg (37)]

Would you be open to the idea if it meant tags could return?

No. Losing anonymity is compromise enough.

As I say, draw a line on the past, don't delete it.

 

[Phoenix]

No, they were mostly used for passive aggressive stuff and we’ve already lost a few quality posters because of them. I personally don’t have the energy to deal with something so toxic.

 

[AGinAg (37)]

We've lost posters due to them going as well.

 

[Rita]

No. Losing anonymity is compromise enough.

As I say, draw a line on the past, don't delete it.

The issue is I am not sure that some people can and would.

 

[Phoenix]

We've lost posters due to them going as well.

who?

 

[Rita]

who?

Shirley

 

[dmlaw]

I don't think it's as easy as saying that we'll draw a line on the past. Do we remember that just before tags were removed, there was an incident where a potentially anti-Semitic tag was found on an old topic with about four replies? The mods noted that it seemed out of character, removed it, warned the poster who was very apologetic and, quite rightly, never told anyone who it was. If tags had been public at that point, I'm sure there would have been a great big argument and half the forum would still be thinking of the mystery tagger as 'the anti-Semitic one'. We're a small community and I feel that this sort of public shaming would be both inevitable and unfair if tags are made public with the old ones still in place.

 

[AGinAg (37)]

who?

At the very least Shirley.

 

[Peekaboo]

I've voted 'no' on the basis that it's close to science fiction to think that people are going to police themselves. There's a whole thread called "Late night drunk moopy". Know yourselves.

Also, we had this conversation less than four months ago and suggesting that was "another time" is completely disingenuous. I miss tags but I don't miss people personally insulting me because I made a joke about the death of your future king.

 

[SDF]

I haven’t missed them.

And they really did cause people to leave / get offended etc.

so it’s a no from me.

 

[octophone]

Do we know for a fact that Shirley has left and has done so because tags were removed? This has been floated by a few people.

 

[AGinAg (37)]

Who do know that's left DUE to tags?

It's all based on presumptions anyway.

 

[Rita]

Practically NECK AND NECK.

 

[SDF]

We shouldn’t just bring them back because ‘it’s a laugh innit’

Tags caused great offence to others. They were mean. And if we’ve really moved on from
Moopyrate then we can also move on from tags.

 

[Rita]

I really didn’t think it would be as close at this. I assumed a landslide one way or the other.

 

[SDF]

And finally the point on learning from the past, it’s not always clear when a tag was left? So a bump of an old topic can then cause someone to notice something they didn’t before and all hell to break loose

 

[octophone]

And finally the point on learning from the past, it’s not always clear when a tag was left? So a bump of an old topic can then cause someone to notice something they didn’t before and all hell to break loose

I think that's why there was a suggestion of deleting all previous tags and starting from the beginning.

 

[Soldi]

Hi @L. Põldvere

 

[Soldi]

52%/48%

 

[SDF]

I think that's why there was a suggestion of deleting all previous tags and starting from the beginning.

So I thought part of the argument was that they were part of our history and people wanted the old ones back?

Are we going to just keep on deleting them every time someone leaves a mean tag, or sentiment changes on what is or isn’t acceptable to say?

 

[SDF]

Also I know this has come up a few times, but mods standing for election - it would be good to know your stance on this. It doesn’t seem like you’ve all voted in the above poll?

 

[Kate]

If deleting the old ones is the only way to have them back then fine. They are as good as lost forever anyway if we don't bring them back at all.

 

[COB]

I genuinely don't know where I stand on this, I've realised.

 

[Generic Account]

We shouldn’t just bring them back because ‘it’s a laugh innit’

Tags caused great offence to others. They were mean. And if we’ve really moved on from
Moopyrate then we can also move on from tags.

I agree. I don't think they're as catastrophic as Moopyrate would be but they're tarnished for me.

And unless I'm reading it wrongly it's bothering me frankly that people are disregarding what has been said and implying that a Moopy wide yes/no vote will give validity to bringing them back. Again, it screams 'Most of the yes voters have never been bothered by it, and some may have actually perpetrated the crappy tags of the past, but they're a majority so maybe we should bring them back!!!'.

 

[Soldi]

Also I know this has come up a few times, but mods standing for election - it would be good to know your stance on this. It doesn’t seem like you’ve all voted in the above poll?

It would be a no in the old form. But a yes if members could see who was writing them, better moderation (again more mods could solve this) etc.

It’d be great to get @Shirley back but it’d also be ideal to come to a solution that would see the return of other members that left over the issue.

And on a personal note I’ve not particularly missed them (the tags, not the members who have left ) either, but then I’ve not been living with them for years.

 

[Generic Account]

I agree. I don't think they're as catastrophic as Moopyrate would be but they're tarnished for me.

And unless I'm reading it wrongly it's bothering me frankly that people are disregarding what has been said and implying that a Moopy wide yes/no vote will give validity to bringing them back. Again, it screams 'Most of the yes voters have never been bothered by it, and some may have actually perpetrated the crappy tags of the past, but they're a majority so maybe we should bring them back!!!'.

Edited.

 

[L. Põldvere]

The irony of this fundamentally being an unmoderated space in which we can call each other cunts and throw around hate speech as we please (as long as it’s in accord with the Moopy Way) and this fuss about not wanting snarky tags back is obviously lost on some of you.

From what I can gather, Shirley did leave because of tags being removed and I (Zu, obviously - I know I said I wouldn’t but I’m a lunatic so shove it up your gunny if you don’t like it ) would say that they brought a very particular peculiarity to proceedings. If tags are genuinely offensive, report ‘em, string the lounger up and throw ‘em out! Add their current absence to the recent call to have dreary old crappo copies of iOS smileys added to the collection and you’re left with something which isn’t nearly as distinctive as it once was. If that makes me old school, ÇA M’EST ÉGAL

 

[lolly]

And finally the point on learning from the past, it’s not always clear when a tag was left? So a bump of an old topic can then cause someone to notice something they didn’t before and all hell to break loose

Yes, I admit I hadn't considered that aspect.

I'm increasingly coming down on the side of NO.

 

[Generic Account]

I'd also be interested in weighing up/considering the following:

Posters who want tags posting in a tagless moopy

Vs

Posters who don't want tags posting in a Moopy that has brought them back -

Which group of posters would be happier and more comfortable posting here in the given situation?

 

[dUb]

Again, it screams 'Most of the yes voters have never been bothered by it, and some may have actually perpetrated the crappy tags of the past, but they're a majority so maybe we should bring them back!!!'.

Spoiler

 

[octophone]

The irony of this fundamentally being an unmoderated space in which we can call each other cunts and throw around hate speech as we please (as long as it’s in accord with the Moopy Way) and this fuss about not wanting snarky tags back is obviously lost on some of you.

I don't think we do throw around hate speech. Yes, Moopy has a very particular humour and it can be harsh but I think there's a difference between a post that's on the border of acceptability and anonymous bullying and that's essentially where we got to with tags, mores the pity.

 

[SDF]

I think when you look at whether we should or shouldn’t have tags, you actually need to turn to the people who felt consistently bullied, victimised or offended by them

And everyone who was, as far as I can tell, is saying no. So it’s not enough that they are a bit of fun.

 

[Soldi]

To those that were bullied/targeted/offended by the tags, would you consider leaving in the event that they were brought back, even with amendments?

 

[VoR]

To those that were bullied/targeted/offended by the tags, would you consider leaving in the event that they were brought back?

That's a bit of an unfair question, no?

 

[octophone]

I just got an e-mail from BLM - the heading is "We demand a public apology" and my first thought was "fuck's sake, what have I done NOW?" and I'm blaming this conversation for that.

 

[Soldi]

That's a bit of an unfair question, no?

It isn’t intended to! I’d just consider changing my vote from yes to no if that would be the case, I wouldn’t want more people to leave over it.

 

[L. Põldvere]

I don't think we do throw around hate speech.

But we DO! (I certainly have over the last 11 years.) Calling someone a cunt is, whether we agree with it or not, surely defined as hate speech. Personally it’s one of my favourite words because of its power and attack, but one of my first posts (which included it) when we moved to XenForo was flagged up as hate speech and I got a pop-up message about it. Luckily the police were very understanding

 

[Indie]

On a "pure" level I want them back. I wanted to tag something the other day and completely forgot they had gone. Is a loss.

But i get the strength of feeling against. And they've caused me plenty of anguish around the last debate.

I think it would have to be a delete all, make public, and start again.

 

[Generic Account]

To those that were bullied/targeted/offended by the tags, would you consider leaving in the event that they were brought back?

I'd feel less comfortable posting but wouldn't leave. If the same thing happened again I would.

And there are posters who got it far worse than I did, but I did receive a barrage of low to mid level stuff that made me feel very unhappy.

Ultimately we don't know for sure who was making the tags, and I'm sure they have a number of their own issues if they were in the state of mind where bringing down other posters made them feel better, but I'll repeat that it does continue to annoy me that some of them are likely advocating for a return of tags through the 'yes' option (or even by commenting).