Coronavirus

[Soldi]

Anyway I need to do some work

 

[ZenGiraffe]

I can't see where I first saw it, the JCVI guy said that the time it would take to administer a job priority vaccination system isn't worth the risk of overall slowdown in vaccination

 

[dmlaw]

Because they have to spend 5 days a week in close proximity to a load of scabby possibly infected children!

It should be the same children every day, which would put them at a lower risk than, for example, the police, bus drivers or supermarket workers, who could be confronted with absolutely anyone. Given that GPs may not know their patients' occupations, I can very much see why prioritising by occupation would slow down the roll out.

 

[Star]

I’m failing you see why a teacher in their 20s/30s with no prior health condition should be prioritised over someone in their 40s???

I think you have to take into account the level of exposure someone is under on a daily basis.

 

[Ellie]

It’s the employers who do this rather than GPs though. I’ve had flu jabs through my work and not even had to tell a GP.

 

[Star]

It should be the same children every day, which would put them at a lower risk than, for example, the police, bus drivers or supermarket workers, who could be confronted with absolutely anyone. Given that GPs may not know their patients' occupations, I can very much see why prioritising by occupation would slow down the roll out.

Just to play devil's advocate, but those children are in contact with lots of others at home etc, therefore potentially a teacher is exposed to more risk. I agree supermarket workers are also massively exposed.
Interestingly I was talking to a bus driver the other day and he said he felt quite safe as he's in a boxed off driving seat and has an open window next to him.

I do think it's a minefield when you get into occupation though

 

[Star]

It’s the employers who do this rather than GPs though. I’ve had flu jabs through my work and not even had to tell a GP.

Yes. Our professional governing body has got us all jabs, GP didn't do anything.

 

[Lucille]

Teachers actually aren’t more at risk than the general population though, factory workers/shop assistants/taxi drivers all have higher rates of infection, the conceived risk is much higher than what the data suggests. I think when you’re dealing with under 50s without health conditions, where the mortality rate is already incredibly low, splitting hairs over occupation will only slow down vaccinations for very little if any benefit. Going by age at this point is both the fairest and logistically easiest way to go.

 

[Star]

I read this post this morning from a comedian, puts a really different spin on the whole BAME thing. Very sad;

 

[Kate]

My worry isn't just the risk to individual health though, it's that we also need to slow the rate of infection as much as possible, because the more it spreads the more chance there is of another mutation.

 

[Kate]

I read this post this morning from a comedian, puts a really different spin on the whole BAME thing. Very sad;

 

[Star]

Going by age is for sure the easiest and quickest way to roll it out, so it does have merit. But equally I really sympathise with occupations where people feel at risk. Dealing with that fear of catching it every day is mentally difficult.

 

[Iguana]

My worry isn't just the risk to individual health though, it's that we also need to slow the rate of infection as much as possible, because the more it spreads the more chance there is of another mutation.

This concerns me too. I think the fact is that the rollout is going well and quickly, so if it keeps on track, the ordering won't make as much difference as if the rollout was slow or ineffective. I'm taking some solace in that at least

 

[Star]

Quite frankly, a lot of these exposed occupations would be at a lot less risk if the government actually had the balls to control the mask wearing better. Far too many people are taking the p*ss with the system and not wearing a mask when they could (and I speak from daily first hand experience).

Once again the government are to blame.

 

[Kate]

On another note, did we see Sunak is considering bringing back Eat Out To Help Out... and hospitality workers are dead against it because the Great British Public were SO CUNTY to them last time!

 

[Ellie]

Quite frankly, a lot of these exposed occupations would be at a lot less risk if the government actually had the balls to control the mask wearing better. Far too many people are taking the p*ss with the system and not wearing a mask when they could (and I speak from daily first hand experience).

Once again the government are to blame.

I saw a post the other day against a picture of a young boy wearing a mask and looking quite happy, but all the comments were calling it child abuse

 

[Cloud]

So I have a mole just above my foot which has decided to bleed (mostly when I take a shower), now I'm HOPING it's because I was scratching my foot like fuck and maybe scratched that a bit too (I've been getting a heck of an itch I think due to heat and dry skin from wearing socks in bed... it's been cold!). I've managed to create various lesions on my feet that bled (in a similar way - mostly after a shower) with the scratching, so... yeah... I hope and pray it's that. And no I don't think it's covid rash as that happens on the face and stuff.

But my point being, in conjunction with Google and other little aches and twinges my head is in a place of "you have melanoma and it's spread to your lymph nodes hence the weird sensation in one side of your groin and maybe your lungs hence that occasional little cough and you've got maybe a few years to live"

And that's terrifying enough, but it must be REALLY frustrating for those who've been professionally given just a few months/years to live and all they can do right now is sit at home and wait to die. Grim.

 

[Star]

Googling symptoms is the worst thing you can do. Wait for professional advice - which is available despite everything going on. And try not to overthink in the mean time...

 

[Soldi]

We have just booked to go to Cornwall in July

 

[Suomi]

Wish I hadn’t read these last two pages, so instead I am just going to promote this delightful positivity:

https://onewayroadtobeer.com/

 

[Indie]

Wish I hadn’t read these last two pages, so instead I am just going to promote this delightful positivity:

https://onewayroadtobeer.com/

I look forward to my cider in the park at 00.01am like suggested.

 

[cwej]

I’m failing you see why a teacher in their 20s/30s with no prior health condition should be prioritised over someone in their 40s???

I'm a 38 year old teacher who will now have to wait until all the 40 year old 'work from homers' are vaccinated which seems ludicrous - all because I'm 18 months younger than them. But I can see the argument of just GET IT DONE and stop splitting hairs. We are doing a good job as a nation of just hurrying the fuck up, so hopefully that will just continue accelerating.

 

[Indie]

I'm a 38 year old teacher who will now have to wait until all the 40 year old 'work from homers' are vaccinated which seems ludicrous - all because I'm 18 months younger than them. But I can see the argument of just GET IT DONE and stop splitting hairs. We are doing a good job as a nation of just hurrying the fuck up, so hopefully that will just continue accelerating.

I think on balance, I support the notion of just getting it done, and by age seems like best way to get the volume done.

Don't get me wrong I support the plight of teachers, and even more so police officers. There's also quite a vast list of unmentioned - supermarket workers, delivery drivers, plumbers, butchers, bakers, (candlestick makers), builders, factory workers, taxi drivers, property surveyors, takeaway owners, transport staff etc etc etc who are all seeing large numbers of other people to various extents of risk. Logistically, it seems difficult to manage by occupation when no central database exists.

It may not be the "fairest" system, but it's probably the quickest.

 

[cwej]

I think on balance, I support the notion of just getting it done, and by age seems like best way to get the volume done.

Don't get me wrong I support the plight of teachers, and even more so police officers. There's also quite a vast list of unmentioned - supermarket workers, delivery drivers, plumbers, butchers, bakers, (candlestick makers), builders, factory workers, taxi drivers, property surveyors, takeaway owners, transport staff etc etc etc who are all seeing large numbers of other people to various extents of risk. Logistically, it seems difficult to manage by occupation when no central database exists.

It may not be the "fairest" system, but it's probably the quickest.

Agree. I do think it's astonishing that when the Department for Education currently have a record low of 4% of support from teachers they didn't think this might be a bit of a political win for them though... FOUR PERCENT.

 

[Iguana]

Agree. I do think it's astonishing that when the Department for Education currently have a record low of 4% of support from teachers they didn't think this might be a bit of a political win for them though... FOUR PERCENT.

As awful as it sounds, they don't need to care about the support of teachers. The latest 2 polls have the Conservatives 7 and 8 points ahead of Labour (Opinium yesterday and Survation today, respectively)

 

[cwej]

As awful as it sounds, they don't need to care about the support of teachers. The latest 2 polls have the Conservatives 7 and 8 points ahead of Labour (Opinium yesterday and Survation today, respectively)

Oh yeah I know. You'd think they'd want SOME though?!

 

[Cloud]

Googling symptoms is the worst thing you can do. Wait for professional advice - which is available despite everything going on. And try not to overthink in the mean time...

yup

I did contact the doc in the end, with everything going on in my head it was like "I'd rather not find later that I have a 20% chance of living for 5 more years and wish I'd made one simple phone call that could've prevented it"

As it happens based on the photos he's in agreement that I probably subconsciously scratched it when busy scratching the rest of my itchy feet to fuck, but booked a face to face next week just in case. He says if before then it's healed and looks normal again like he expects then he's not worried so just cancel the appointment

Shall see how it fares...

 

[funky]

I read this post this morning from a comedian, puts a really different spin on the whole BAME thing. Very sad;

I’ve heard people talking about how, when the next wave comes, probably in November, because we won’t lock down again we’ll just be living with it now, it’ll be much smaller numbers, but isolated to specific communities who haven’t been vaccinated for religious and/or misinformation reasons. It’ll wipe out entire families. So infuriatingly sad.

 

[Iguana]

Some GOOD NEWS.

Death rates in the UK are falling faster than projections used by the government predicted. The projections showed that deaths per day wouldn't fall below 200 for another three weeks, but we're at that point now. This is because the vaccine appears to be more effective than the model projected. Therefore we could be three weeks ahead of schedule, subject to an uptick when schools go back

 

[Nancy]

It really does feel like hope is on the horizon now, doesn't it?

 

[Lucille]

After being COVID CENTRAL 2 months ago it’s nice to see London turning LOVELY BRIGHT GREEN on the Covid map.

 

[Pingu]

Some GOOD NEWS.

Death rates in the UK are falling faster than projections used by the government predicted. The projections showed that deaths per day wouldn't fall below 200 for another three weeks, but we're at that point now. This is because the vaccine appears to be more effective than the model projected. Therefore we could be three weeks ahead of schedule, subject to an uptick when schools go back

I saw that too, but while it’s obviously great that deaths are falling so quickly, the rolling average is still around 280 deaths per day, so the people using the lower weekend figures to demonstrate how we’re ahead of schedule and therefore should open up quicker than planned are a tad misguided I feel.

 

[Iguana]

I saw that too, but while it’s obviously great that deaths are falling so quickly, the rolling average is still around 280 deaths per day, so the people using the lower weekend figures to demonstrate how we’re ahead of schedule and therefore should open up quicker than planned are a tad misguided I feel.

Ah ok, well hopefully the figures today/tomorrow bear it out

 

[Pingu]

Ah ok, well hopefully the figures today/tomorrow bear it out

Unfortunately the figures today and tomorrow would need to be near-zero to take the average deaths per day down below 200. They’re coming down nicely but I don’t think we’re ahead of schedule as it were.

 

[Cloud]

Must admit I'm always very sceptical about good news after a year of the "get hopes up, get swatted back down" cycle.

Still, more of it - tl;dr vaccinated people even with the current vaccines, or those who have been infected by the real thing in the past, shouldn't get seriously ill from the new variants that we currently know of.

A crucial wing of the immune system appears to be just as good at recognising all the new coronavirus variants, a study has found.

In laboratory tests, T-cell responses in those vaccinated or previously infected with coronavirus were largely unaffected by each of the key variants. This included the new Brazilian variant, found in small numbers in the UK last week.

The new findings suggest that even if people are able to be reinfected by the variants, some of which are believed to partially evade our first immune response, the body will have key tools for preventing severe disease.

However, the scientists behind the findings cautioned that the protective abilities of the T-cell response remained to be proven in the field.

“If you have a good T-cell response you may not be able to prevent infection, but you should be able to soften the blow,” said Professor Alessandro Sette, from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology. “That is important. The opposite scenario would have been really concerning, if the new variants had been able to evade both the antibody response and the T-cell response.”

After infection or vaccination, people produce antibodies specific to the coronavirus. These recognise and latch on to part of the spike the virus uses to infect cells — effectively blocking it.

“Basically you create a wall and the virus bounces off that wall,” said Sette. “This is sterilizing immunity.”

One of the concerns about new variants, particularly those from South Africa and Brazil, is they contain a mutation that changes the shape of the spike, meaning they evade antibodies built up against the old version.

However, that is only the first line of defence. We know from vaccine trials that even if people do become infected following vaccination, they are still at least 50 per cent less likely to develop severe disease compared to those who were infected without being vaccinated.

The second line of defence that helps them fight off Covid comes in part from T-cells, which are harder to trick.

“One of the things that T-cells do is kill infected cells or create an antiviral response,” said Sette. “So, if you have T-cells you may not prevent the infection, but you may lessen the severity of the disease. You may also shorten the duration of a disease.”

Unlike antibodies, these T-cells home in on a larger portion of the virus’s spike, meaning it has to change more significantly to elude them.

Because each person’s T-cells choose these larger sections of viral proteins at random, it also means it’s harder for the virus to evolve in a way that it evades them at a population level. Even if it finds a way to trick one person, that does not mean it will trick the person they infect.

Sette’s research, published ahead of peer review, used blood taken from people who had received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines or been naturally infected. It showed that while their antibody response might be reduced, their T-cell response held up well.

“Putting two and two together you would imagine that if you have a good T-cell response you would be able to lessen symptoms.”

The findings will be comforting for Britain’s vaccine strategy, however public health officials cautioned it was still important to prevent the spread of new variants. No protection is perfect, and any vaccine that can infect people better — even only mildly — will risk slowly the raising of lockdown.

Sette said it will also be key to see what happens in the real world. Currently some cities in South America that are believed to have had high infection levels are seeing a second spike in hospitalisations, apparently caused by the new Brazilian variant.

This includes places like Leticia in Colombia, where studies suggest that around 60 per cent of the population were previously infected with the old variant. This at least suggests that some people are being reinfected and ending up in hospital.

 

[vespertine]

I'm so interested in the data these days - the next months and years are going to be fascinating.

What a time to be a statistician!

COVID-19 policies might result in more life-years lost than saved

 

[Rita]

They are expecting another major surge and possibly over 30k deaths of coronavirus. Is this never going to end?

 

[Star]

Oh god

 

[Tetris-Rock]

I’ve heard people talking about how, when the next wave comes, probably in November, because we won’t lock down again we’ll just be living with it now, it’ll be much smaller numbers, but isolated to specific communities who haven’t been vaccinated for religious and/or misinformation reasons. It’ll wipe out entire families. So infuriatingly sad.

I live in Tower Hamlets and my flatmate is a support worker in the Borough. They told me yesterday that the local authority has among the lowest vaccination rate in England. I imagine this is related to the high south Asian (particularly Bangladeshi) population. They are doing all manner of stuff to try and increase uptake - including rolling out vaccination hubs into spaces heavily utilised by these communities.

The idea of so many people here suffering because of vaccine misinformation really infuriates me. Obviously i’ll be vaccinated but I guess i’m also worried about mutations.

 

[Kate]

The "surge" is if we unlock sooner, as the backbench Tory cunts are demanding.