S13 E12: Nice Girls Roast (1 Viewer)

[ButterTart]

I’ve no idea what her background is, I just see a contestant who isn’t as funny or innovative as I’m being told. If that footage existed, surely it would be in the edit.

Incidentally I feel like this thread is being made out to be more of a screaming row than it actually is.

 

[Beverley]

I’ve no idea what her background is, I just see a contestant who isn’t as funny or innovative as I’m being told. If that footage existed, surely it would be in the edit.

Incidentally I feel like this thread is being made out to be more of a screaming row than it actually is.

that RS, she gets v. hysterical

 

[ZenGiraffe]

that RS, she gets v. hysterical

Because the rest of us here are so famously HINGED

 

[RS]

Sorry girls, you know I love you all, I really do (sometimes even Bev), but I can’t help myself I love such discussions, they bring out the feral Arab in me.

And if it comes off as screaming or hysterical to you, it is because of your own innate racism and xenophobia.

 

[Dark Carnival]

Sorry girls, you know I love you all, I really do (sometimes even Bev), but I can’t help myself I love such discussions, they bring out the feral Arab in me.

And if it comes off as screaming or hysterical to you, it is because of your own innate racism and xenophobia.

You do seem like a lot of Iraqis I know... SAVAGES.

 

[Dark Carnival]

(BEFORE ANYONE CANCELS ME IM HALF IRAQI)

 

[Beverley]

Because the rest of us here are so famously HINGED

speak for yourselves, luv, i'd like to be excused from the narrative!

 

[ButterTart]

Sorry girls, you know I love you all, I really do (sometimes even Bev), but I can’t help myself I love such discussions, they bring out the feral Arab in me.

And if it comes off as screaming or hysterical to you, it is because of your own innate racism and xenophobia.

I love a fiery conversation in fairness. It takes a lot for me to consider something an argument; until someone throws a chair it’s all just cheerful badinage.

 

[Phoenix]

(BEFORE ANYONE CANCELS ME IM HALF IRAQI)

Weren’t you cancelled last week for being a covid gay? I can’t keep up anymore.

 

[ButterTart]

(BEFORE ANYONE CANCELS ME IM HALF IRAQI)
Then you’re only half cancelled.

 

[Penelope]

(BEFORE ANYONE CANCELS ME IM HALF IRAQI)

The bottom or the top?

 

[dUb]

I would just like to say that Utica inviting the famously sweatpants-clad Ru to stand up was the funniest part of the roast

 

[Raining on Me]

I think Kandy was a fair winner - I'd have given it to Gottmik maybe, just, but Kandy did well with that. For once there were actual jokes even if nothing ground-breaking. I did laugh at the acting her age so she died line. Rose was excellent too but almost a bit *too* professional, almost clinical, although that's a VERY minor criticism and not really a criticism at all

The quite vocal Kandy hate online/here I guess is for a whole heap of things. For one, her runways are frequently diabolical and she often kinda slumps through a challenge at best. Then I think that last second double save a few weeks back hasn't done her any favours with people, either, and has helped fuel the resentment some may feel when she was basically that close to going home. These two combined are enough that, whether you like her or not (I feel neither but side more to her being underwhelming - and it was lower than that before she redeemed herself this episode), you cannot deny she has been very, very lucky to get this far. Personality may have played a part, it always does. Nothing new. There is probably an angle of "what makes best TV" in some decisions.

But this a TV competition and every single season there is someone, usually more than one, who goes further than they perhaps deserve with some making it all the way to the final not on their own merit but because other people have fucked up. Even after that shitshow, Utica is still a more interesting/watchable queen than Kandy for me but people like Utica especially are always the types to fuck up and go out, while a few safer queens sneak by. Kandy's just that girl this year (and in recent episodes, so is Olivia whose wins are looking more like plain good fortune than anything else at this point). But really, so what? She's not seen off any spectacular competition. As if Tamisha would have come this far even if they'd saved her instead of Kandy.

On the flip side...when you look at her record so far, the amount of highs (4, not including the win and the lip sync win in ep1!) is somewhat... But that's where the personality thing is coming in to play I guess, which is the favouritism part. None of this is her fault of course, and when I look at who's gone, you can say most were masters of their own demise.

This is kind of an unnecessarily long way of saying I wouldn't have put Kandy this far either, but I don't begrudge it or care too much. She *is* entertaining at least, and I look forward to whatever horror she's gonna bring on the runway. Despite people like Tina and Denali being arguably "better", I can't say as I ever looked forward to them appearing. At least with Kandy you're gonna get some form of car crash fun, or like this week, an actual good performance.

 

[Raining on Me]

Also the race thing - it probably exists, but maybe it's more to do with being a big, loud girl type of queen? Silky was an obvious comparison (who was way better as a competitor though), but what about Eureka? I seem to recall a fair amount of hate thrown her way. I'm sure there must be other examples going back through the years. I'm not sure if race seems to align with the criticisms here when we have white girls hated for the exact same thing, although I'm willing to accept it's possible as an unknown background kinda thing affecting judgement. I don't know if Kandy's supposed online hate is worse than anyone before, but then the show is bigger now than ever and people are more vocal about it, so it's really not a level playing field.

In terms of favouritism by judges, I think it's definitely there, but let's look at Lawrence. Is Kandy being given more favouritism than that?! I liked Lawrence a LOT but actually winning the whole thing as seemed planned from the off despite very clearly not being the winner for the final 5 episodes or so, is kind of another level to Kandy scraping her ass into the top 5 (probably top 4 now) of a competition she's never gonna win.

I'm waffling now, but also re: enunciation. Regardless of reasons why, it does make it very difficult when you can't understand what someone's saying sometimes especially during a challenge where it matters. Not a judgement, but it's going to affect yours views on their performance.

 

[RS]

I would just like to say that Utica inviting the famously sweatpants-clad Ru to stand up was the funniest part of the roast

My heart literally dropped/stopped when she did that, I thought Ru was going to kill her.

 

[Raining on Me]

Anyway more importantly - I'm super scared for Symone after that and whatever the clips for next week seem to be suggesting Gottmik was her only real competition for the crown and it's getting harder to deny that Gottmik would be a fair winner too the way she keeps turning it out most weeks, although I do think they give her a free pass on the runway sometimes when she comes out wearing nothing but two flaps of leather glued to her nips (speaking of which, why no runway this week, or is that normal at this point?). On the flip side, some of her looks HAVE been great, and Symone's one bad look (the ) ALSO got a free pass. A trans winner would be a good thing for the show, so I think they might angle towards that.

But Symone is just the best I felt for her this week, I am dreading what's gonna happen next. That lip sync was WORLD CLASS if we were handing out medals (Utica was amazing too - had it not been her turn to go after bombing so hard, that could easily have been a double save. Kandy is but a mere minor part in favouritism/decisions being made to suit etc. Not that I think Utica should've stayed obviously, too many fuck ups now)

On the bright side, Symone in Allstars getting a Shea type run, without fucking up, would be something.

 

[ButterTart]

Also the race thing - it probably exists, but maybe it's more to do with being a big, loud girl type of queen? Silky was an obvious comparison (who was way better as a competitor though), but what about Eureka? I seem to recall a fair amount of hate thrown her way. I'm sure there must be other examples going back through the years. I'm not sure if race seems to align with the criticisms here when we have white girls hated for the exact same thing, although I'm willing to accept it's possible as an unknown background kinda thing affecting judgement. I don't know if Kandy's supposed online hate is worse than anyone before, but then the show is bigger now than ever and people are more vocal about it, so it's really not a level playing field.

In terms of favouritism by judges, I think it's definitely there, but let's look at Lawrence. Is Kandy being given more favouritism than that?! I liked Lawrence a LOT but actually winning the whole thing as seemed planned from the off despite very clearly not being the winner for the final 5 episodes or so, is kind of another level to Kandy scraping her ass into the top 5 (probably top 4 now) of a competition she's never gonna win.

I'm waffling now, but also re: enunciation. Regardless of reasons why, it does make it very difficult when you can't understand what someone's saying sometimes especially during a challenge where it matters. Not a judgement, but it's going to affect yours views on their performance.

I've nothing against her enunciation, it's the over-reliance on 'bitch' that grates. She said it loads throughout the roast and got away scot free. A few years ago, Detox was criticised for saying 'fuck' throughout her routine.

I feel like far more genuine hate was thrown towards Eureka, and lest we forget TINA was a figure of ridicule right up to her elimination last week. Kandy is A target, but far from the ONLY target.

 

[Generic Account]

I'm sorry but there was not more hate thrown towards Eureka. The Vixen bore of the brunt of it that year; it's only been in a post S10 world that The Vixen has become a folk hero and Eureka has become the ultra villain.

The closest comparison to Kandy is Silky.

 

[Penelope]

Anyway more importantly - I'm super scared for Symone after that and whatever the clips for next week seem to be suggesting Gottmik was her only real competition for the crown and it's getting harder to deny that Gottmik would be a fair winner too the way she keeps turning it out most weeks, although I do think they give her a free pass on the runway sometimes when she comes out wearing nothing but two flaps of leather glued to her nips (speaking of which, why no runway this week, or is that normal at this point?). On the flip side, some of her looks HAVE been great, and Symone's one bad look (the ) ALSO got a free pass. A trans winner would be a good thing for the show, so I think they might angle towards that.

But Symone is just the best I felt for her this week, I am dreading what's gonna happen next. That lip sync was WORLD CLASS if we were handing out medals (Utica was amazing too - had it not been her turn to go after bombing so hard, that could easily have been a double save. Kandy is but a mere minor part in favouritism/decisions being made to suit etc. Not that I think Utica should've stayed obviously, too many fuck ups now)

On the bright side, Symone in Allstars getting a Shea type run, without fucking up, would be something.

Oh come on, that next time clip could not be a more blatant attempt at getting the audience scared she might go and keen to tune in only for it to be Symone crying because she's being a bloody perfectionist again

 

[Generic Account]

Symone is a brilliant lip syncer but I don't feel like she'd be a big one for stunts in the finale. Whereas Gottmik wasn't great in her one lip sync, but maybe she'd be more inclined towards bangs and crashes. If they do a standard finale then I dunno who would win. (*completely disregards the other three*)

I wonder when we'll get the All Stars cast reveal? It was in the middle of the prior season last year.

 

[Raining on Me]

I'm sorry but there was not more hate thrown towards Eureka. The Vixen bore of the brunt of it that year; it's only been in a post S10 world that The Vixen has become a folk hero and Eureka has become the ultra villain.

The closest comparison to Kandy is Silky.

You're probably right, but Eureka definitely didn't get off scot free. Of course Eureka was some distance better than Kandy anyway.

I liked Silky a lot more than Kandy as I recall. I've no idea who received more "hate" or how you even quantify that. Silky was significantly better at the challenges as a whole, but I think she probably got a lot more flack for being loud and full on, certainly early on.

All I can say for Kandy is I think critiquing solely based on what she's brought to the table in challenges and runways and saying she's a lucky bitch for getting this far, is very fair and unlikely to be race related for lots of people, even subconsciously. Certainly on moopy, everyone seems to agree on that? But she is not the first or last and the perpetual "safes" who quietly get there too, despite bringing nothing, are just as bad. Going further and talking about her whole personality and attitude opens that discussion up though, potentially. Personally, I've mostly been interested in what she brings task wise but I definitely haven't found her that unpleasant at all really. Maybe a bit reactive and argumentative, but I'd say that was half the cast of ANY season.

 

[Raining on Me]

Oh come on, that next time clip could not be a more blatant attempt at getting the audience scared she might go and keen to tune in only for it to be Symone crying because she's being a bloody perfectionist again

Tell that to Utica getting about 115 rattlesnake edits in the "next time" clips, and bombing each one

I'm under no illusion Symone is making the final of course, that's pretty clear, what I meant was if the clip is correct it suggests she might not do great in the task and could hurt her chances at beating Gottmik, which the roast challenge has already helped towards...

 

[Generic Account]

You're probably right, but Eureka definitely didn't get off scot free. Of course Eureka was some distance better than Kandy anyway.

I liked Silky a lot more than Kandy as I recall. I've no idea who received more "hate" or how you even quantify that. Silky was significantly better at the challenges as a whole, but I think she probably got a lot more flack for being loud and full on, certainly early on.

All I can say for Kandy is I think critiquing solely based on what she's brought to the table in challenges and runways and saying she's a lucky bitch for getting this far, is very fair and unlikely to be race related for lots of people, even subconsciously. Certainly on moopy, everyone seems to agree on that? But she is not the first or last and the perpetual "safes" who quietly get there too, despite bringing nothing, are just as bad. Going further and talking about her whole personality and attitude opens that discussion up though, potentially. Personally, I've mostly been interested in what she brings task wise but I definitely haven't found her that unpleasant at all really. Maybe a bit reactive and argumentative, but I'd say that was half the cast of ANY season.

I think I agree with this, really. She has gotten an easy-ish ride, but she isn't alone in that, even within this season itself. As you've already said Gottmik has been given a couple of free passes too. It's more about why the reaction to her is so much greater than it has been to prior queens.

 

[Raining on Me]

I've nothing against her enunciation, it's the over-reliance on 'bitch' that grates. She said it loads throughout the roast and got away scot free. A few years ago, Detox was criticised for saying 'fuck' throughout her routine.

Agree, but she actually landed funny jokes this time for me. Whereas the improv challenge, I think, she kept saying that to end a line because she had nothing else to say, and to some degree in snatch game and the drink ad.

 

[GNL]

I'm sorry but there was not more hate thrown towards Eureka. The Vixen bore of the brunt of it that year; it's only been in a post S10 world that The Vixen has become a folk hero and Eureka has become the ultra villain.

The closest comparison to Kandy is Silky.

I don't really agree with the idea that Eureka has only been recast as a villain after the show. They were really widely disliked within the fandom - Reddit absolutely DESPISED them from the first episode of untucked onwards. I remember lots of people were INCREDULOUS about their 'the big girl wins!' outfit, and there was a running joke that they were only coasting their way through because Drag Race didn't want them to SUE THEM over busting Eureka's knee in the season before

The Vixen definitely got a lot of hate as well though, and racist abuse on top of all that.

 

[GNL]

I feel like Utica had been saving up a lot of HATRED IN HER HEART over the course of this show

 

[Generic Account]

I don't really agree with the idea that Eureka has only been recast as a villain after the show. They were really widely disliked within the fandom - Reddit absolutely DESPISED them from the first episode of untucked onwards. I remember lots of people were INCREDULOUS about their 'the big girl wins!' outfit, and there was a running joke that they were only coasting their way through because Drag Race didn't want them to SUE THEM over busting Eureka's knee in the season before

The Vixen definitely got a lot of hate as well though, and racist abuse too.

I guess I wasn't as aware of Twitter and Reddit opinions then. I just remember people disliking Eureka in S9, warming to her when she got injured, being mixed on her for S10 and some saying she should have won it in the finale.

Whereas The Vixen was getting it from all angles from about the third episode onwards.

 

[VoR]

So I re-watched tonight's episode (I always watch on my own when I wake up, so I don't have to spend the day avoiding spoilers, and then again with friends in the evening)

I'm big enough to admit I was wrong. On second watch, Kandy slayed this episode and deserved to win. I think on first watch I was so expecting her to be shit that I let it colour my viewing of her performance.

Probably because I'm a massive racist.

 

[cwej]

I don't dislike Kandy because she's Latino or 'street'. I dislike her because she's shit. But this week she was less shit (3rd place after Rose and Gottmik for me), so I disliked her less. It really is that simple.

For me Rose should be this year's winner - she's finally toppled Symone for me overall. She's just by far the most consistent and is slightly underrated by the judges, so don't think she has a hope of winning.

1. Rose
2. Symone
3. Gottmik
4. Olivia
5. Kandy

Overall rankings there, but obviously Symone was the worst of the 5 this week. (Didn't think Olivia was actually that bad - she played up the 'sweet' thing and I quite liked it).

Utica... wow. That was deeply uncomfortable in places and made for amazing TV

 

[funky]

I dunno why I haven't been joining in with the DR talk on here because I've been following and enjoying S13, so here's some thoughts on the episode and the ladies left

Kandy - has never been my favourite as she's just a bit SLAPDASH, it's not even trainwreck fashion on purpose, she just can't put a look together, and it's probably only noticeable because of how elevated the show has become, like if she was on the UK version or an earlier season you wouldn't even notice! I do think she's talented though, as evidenced by this episode. I think she was the best on the day, by a HAIR, although Gottmik is funnier and Rosé is more polished.

Symone - terrible week but still my favourite all season. Why was she relying on cue cards when she's so naturally funny? She was warned not to overthink it and yet she... overthunk it. Still want her to win. Her looks are always ridiculous, she's consistently ahead of the pack.

Utica - has been my second favourite all season, she's all over the place and never listens to critiques, but she's had some fantastic highs particularly the outfits. But this week was just dreadful and a different side to her, she got lost with the humour and took nothing on board, and just came across badly, which made it easier to see her go, really

Olivia - not a fan, at all. Had no time for Tina Burner but I loved her "watch out for that one, nobody is that nice"... I mean we're all thinking it. And she riles me the way she thinks her performances are better than they are. No self awareness. The whole thing just meh for me.

Gottmik - didn't like her early on, now my 2nd favourite, she came through on snatch game and has just been cruising since. Isn't aware yet how good she is which is nice. I love her unique back story but she never leans on it, she embraces it and shares it in such a positive way. I live.

Rose - clearly fucking talented but I just can't warm to her for some reason. I wouldn't hate if she won. My sister screams every week because she's convinced Rose (not in drag) has "Scouse face" and now I can't not see it. @VoR are you understanding



So the right one left, unfortunately, and Olivia has to go next week, and Symone FTW. Thanks for listening

 

[VoR]

OMG yes, I can totally see Rose's Scouse-face She looks a lot like what certain friends I went to school with now look like after the RAVAGES of TIME

 

[Diddy]

Oof, this was a thread!

Anyway, despite ranking Kandy in the bottom 2 or 3 many times (because of her evil aura), she totally won that for me, I was cackling throughout. I have my Rose bias but I'm happy with her taking the silver - I get the sort of clutching Gaga criticism (yeah but you were TOO good, you tried hard), she was quite wordy. GottMik landed some good hits but I didn't think that was a winning performance. It was all fun though, the only one that didn't really bring anything to the table (lols or calamities) was Olivia Sux. Being nice is not an interesting take.

1. Rose - She's my kind of funny, I guess, and I am fascinated by her totally unblinking faith in her skills. That outfit was OTT lunacy. No chance of winning, I feel in my heart, but great.

2. GottMik - I've had a bit of a ride with Mik, there are runway slays and then there aren't. There are fun jokes and then there are vocal-fry tropes. She's doing great, I wonder if she could snatch the win though. I think it'll help if there's no Lip Sync extravaganza this year, I don't think Mik or Symone would be served well by that.

3. Symone - I think she's won more than she deserved, but she's still the front-runner. I still think she's relying on the same character a LOT, but I guess the same can be said for Mik & Kandy. I think despite being a good bet for the win, personally she really needs to drive that message home soon.

4. Kandy - I'm not going to wade into the race debate (except to say that all white people have racism baked into their bones to various extents and we need to accept it rather than comparing racism score cards. Oh I guess I waded). She's had some shockers, I think that alien monstrosity was a particular low point. But I totally gave her the win this week. Strange to think about her favouritism when she's the last of the top 5 to get a win! She's certainly been allowed a lot more screen time, but is that her fault?

5. Olivia - She started out well this season but I'm really wondering what else there is to show. I mean yes of course she's a nice person, nothing wrong with her aura etc. but ... when was the last time I got excited about Olivia Lux? Well I checked and it was 5 episodes ago, oof.


And Utica I know people sensed evil in Rose but THIS girl ... it was the most entertaining bomb of the night, even with the booger edit. It's a lazy comparison to say she has the Crystal Methyd vibe, but actually it's not the same vibe for me now. Utica is more fashion, but way more unsettling. I hoped the lip sync would've been better, but she had a good run.

 

[Diddy]

Norvina was fascinating too that mini challenge was really fun
I was curious about her dress - was that a transparent boob window, or was it a picture of cleavage, like Delta Work's bikini t-shirt?

 

[Diddy]

Also my hot take on the "Next week..." clip. I think Symone will be crying post lip-sync and it'll all be out of the way in the first 3 minutes

 

[Penelope]

Also Gottmik TOTALLY knew what she was doing all episode this time "oh I've not been looking forward to this I'm scared it'll be really bad" [effortlessly throws out roast gold]

 

[funky]

Actually @Diddy i think Gottmik is the one not relying on one style, I find her surprisingly versatile as time goes on. Yes @Penelope raises a good point about whether she plays a good game at lowering expectations but either way it’s working on me.

I do agree Symone has a particular style she sticks with, but I think that’s OK. I know the different challenges take them out of their comfort zones depending on the week and maybe this was just not Symone’s. The irony is though she is a funny queen and she should have done well here. It was Rose who showed she’s just a natural performer. Even if she wasn’t the funniest it was the most effortless.

 

[Diddy]

Actually @Diddy i think Gottmik is the one not relying on one style, I find her surprisingly versatile as time goes on. Yes @Penelope raises a good point about whether she plays a good game at lowering expectations but either way it’s working on me.

I do agree Symone has a particular style she sticks with, but I think that’s OK. I know the different challenges take them out of their comfort zones depending on the week and maybe this was just not Symone’s. The irony is though she is a funny queen and she should have done well here. It was Rose who showed she’s just a natural performer. Even if she wasn’t the funniest it was the most effortless.

yeah maybe I misspoke about Mik, but I think I was just getting irritated by that weird face she keeps pulling when she’s on the runway

 

[AGinAg (37)]

Kim Chi on point AGAIN

 

[VoR]

I did think Michelle's feedback that 'mean is never funny' was very weird on a roast challenge.

What she (and Loni) should have done was explain to Utica that a potentially cruel joke has to have an actual punchline. 'You're a fat whale' isn't a joke. 'If this is the Olympics of Drag, you're the stadium' is.

But I don't think Utica was really in a headspace to be taking any of their feedback on board anyway. She bombed every comedy challenge for more or less the same reasons (her jokes weren't jokes) and never seemed to actually change her approach.

 

[cwej]

OMG yes, I can totally see Rose's Scouse-face She looks a lot like what certain friends I went to school with now look like after the RAVAGES of TIME

I don't really know what Scouse face is, but all I ever see when I look at Rose is her being massively Scottish.