2022 French Presidential Election

That’s much higher for Melenchon compared to last time, no?

It’s astonishing how the old classic socialists and republican parties have more or less vanished.
 
Dark Carnival said:
PS 🚮
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Why is Hidalgo so disliked? I mean I understand most people who drive would probably hate her, but I'd have guessed, like, at least a bit more support than 2%. I suppose tactical voting might have played a part in winnowing her support down to that once it was obvious she was doomed.
 
Isn’t that because she represents Paris and therefore seen as another elitist?
 
Penelope said:
Why is Hidalgo so disliked? I mean I understand most people who drive would probably hate her, but I'd have guessed, like, at least a bit more support than 2%. I suppose tactical voting might have played a part in winnowing her support down to that once it was obvious she was doomed.
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She has made an utter mess of Paris and literally no one likes her anymore.. also she always said she’d never be a candidate , being the mayor was the most noble role for her .. until it wasn’t
 
Good Lord, the Melo queens around me are all having meltdowns.

Cut to me: "girls, when you've had Boris Johnson and his extreme-right government in power for three years, miss me with your whining about pro-European centre-right Macron, who actually knows how to dress himself, and brush his own hair"
 
Loufoque said:
Good Lord, the Melo queens around me are all having meltdowns.

Cut to me: "girls, when you've had Boris Johnson and his extreme-right government in power for three years, miss me with your whining about pro-European centre-right Macron, who actually knows how to dress himself, and brush his own hair"
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WIG! (Not in the Katy Perry sense)

”At least he's not Johnson” is such a low bar though, I think they're perfectly entitled to aim higher.
 
I just mean: GET A GRIP. Macron is not the devil. He is a pro-European, who supports LGBTQ+ and does not endanger the very fabric of French democracy. There are a number of European leaders who are much, much, much worse than enduring another 5 years of Macron. I would LOVE for the UK to have anyone approaching Macron on practically EVERY metric.
 
Loufoque said:
I just mean: GET A GRIP. Macron is not the devil. He is a pro-European, who supports LGBTQ+ and does not endanger the very fabric of French democracy. There are a number of European leaders who are much, much, much worse than enduring another 5 years of Macron. I would LOVE for the UK to have anyone approaching Macron on practically EVERY metric.
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That's just so...uninspiring. It's no surprise people get so disenchanted with the democratic process when people tell them to be happy with their austerity because it could be worse.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
That's just so...uninspiring. It's no surprise people get so disenchanted with the democratic process when people tell them to be happy with their austerity because it could be worse.
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It might be uninspiring, but it's the reality of living in a pluralistic society. Not everyone is going to get what they want. The least worst option is actually not that bad, most of the time.

I find it stunning that after both Trump, Brexit, and the war in Ukraine, people can't see that they are quite lucky to have a sane, competent and reasonably moderate leader.
 
Loufoque said:
I just mean: GET A GRIP. Macron is not the devil. He is a pro-European, who supports LGBTQ+ and does not endanger the very fabric of French democracy. There are a number of European leaders who are much, much, much worse than enduring another 5 years of Macron. I would LOVE for the UK to have anyone approaching Macron on practically EVERY metric.
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Thank you !
 
Loufoque said:
I just mean: GET A GRIP. Macron is not the devil. He is a pro-European, who supports LGBTQ+ and does not endanger the very fabric of French democracy. There are a number of European leaders who are much, much, much worse than enduring another 5 years of Macron. I would LOVE for the UK to have anyone approaching Macron on practically EVERY metric.
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He literally had his #Don’tSayGay moment a couple of days ago :D
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Isn’t that because she represents Paris and therefore seen as another elitist?
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Penelope said:
Why is Hidalgo so disliked? I mean I understand most people who drive would probably hate her, but I'd have guessed, like, at least a bit more support than 2%. I suppose tactical voting might have played a part in winnowing her support down to that once it was obvious she was doomed.
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Pretty much. Plus the PS has lost pretty much everything since and because of the catastrophic Holland presidency.
 
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Loufoque said:
I just mean: GET A GRIP. Macron is not the devil. He is a pro-European, who supports LGBTQ+ and does not endanger the very fabric of French democracy. There are a number of European leaders who are much, much, much worse than enduring another 5 years of Macron. I would LOVE for the UK to have anyone approaching Macron on practically EVERY metric.
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Out of interest, you were relatively keen on Cameron up until Brexit happened. Five years of Macron pursuing a, not identical, but relatively similar playbook has led to a point where Le Pen is closer to power than she's ever been before. I obviously agree that he's better than the alternative, but does it not give you some pause on enthusiasm that the formula seems to be a reliable handmaiden for boosting the radical/far right?
 
Penelope said:
Out of interest, you were relatively keen on Cameron up until Brexit happened. Five years of Macron pursuing a, not identical, but relatively similar playbook has led to a point where Le Pen is closer to power than she's ever been before. I obviously agree that he's better than the alternative, but does it not give you some pause on enthusiasm that the formula seems to be a reliable handmaiden for boosting the radical/far right?
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That’s the failure of the Left though, no? Why do people who are unhappy with the centre-right turn to the far right instead of voting for the left?
 
(I do also appreciate this is probably the worst election ever in terms of any viable alternatives, full stop. I found out this evening that the Green candidate's main platform was to get rid of nuclear power in France within 20 years - 80% of their power supply and the thing that makes France relatively GOOD on emissions per person compared to most developed countries. Insanity!)
 
Dark Carnival said:
He literally had his #Don’tSayGay moment a couple of days ago :D
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Do you genuinely believe that Macron is, in any way, anti-LGBTQ? There is absolutely nothing I have seen over the last five years that would lead me to believe that he is not the major candidate most supportive of gay rights.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
That’s the failure of the Left though, no? Why do people who are unhappy with the centre-right turn to the far right instead of voting for the left?
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It's certainly a failure of the left as well, but opposition parties by their nature have far less power to do anything to retain/gain support than governing parties, because they don't have any levers to win support with outside of PR.
 
Penelope said:
Out of interest, you were relatively keen on Cameron up until Brexit happened. Five years of Macron pursuing a, not identical, but relatively similar playbook has led to a point where Le Pen is closer to power than she's ever been before. I obviously agree that he's better than the alternative, but does it not give you some pause on enthusiasm that the formula seems to be a reliable handmaiden for boosting the radical/far right?
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Firstly, I never voted Tory / Cameron. I voted for Lib Dem in 2010, and had left the UK by 2015.

Secondly, looking at what the UK has now, a Tory / LD coalition government would have been a better alternative to a May or a Johnson one.

Thirdly, I don't believe Le Pen is closer to power than ever. Macron's lead on her is bigger than in 2017.

And finally, I don't believe that Macron is pursuing the same policies as Cameron. He is trimming back the state, but he is not imposing hardcore austerity. He is not trying to blackmail the EU; he is devotedly pro-European. He has not created a hostile environment for all immigrants, although there have been some dog-whistles, this is true.

So I'm not sure I agree with your thesis at all.
 
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RaspberrySwirl said:
That’s the failure of the Left though, no? Why do people who are unhappy with the centre-right turn to the far right instead of voting for the left?
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Macron has spent five years conveying far-right principles and ideas on the questions of immigration and identity. I don’t see why the blame should fall on anyone but him for having these ideas so well installed in the public debate now. He literally admitted himself he has failed to stop the far-right a couple of days ago.
 
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Loufoque said:
Do you genuinely believe that Macron is, in any way, anti-LGBTQ? There is absolutely nothing I have seen over the last five years that would lead me to believe that he is not the major candidate most supportive of gay rights.
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Then you haven’t read Mélenchon’s program.
Either way him being not as evil
as Marine to the LGBT doesn’t not make him a supporter.
 
For what it's worth - my non-EU immigrant bf was unemployed for 11 months last year. He received very generous unemployment benefits, even after Macron's reforms. If he had been living in the UK, he would probably have been deported.

So I really reject any spurious comparisons between Macron and ANY Tory government, especially as pertains to immigration or social welfare.
 
Loufoque said:
He is trimming back the state
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Loufoque said:
he is not imposing hardcore austerity
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Oh that's all right then.... :eyes:

Doing something bad slowly is still doing something bad! And who wins? The people being fucked over, however "moderately" will look for an alternative, and people who want it done properly will also look for an alternative. When the left as is tradition are divided, this serves the far right and is a dangerous place for a country to be.
 
I am not saying he's a saint. I'm just saying it could be a hell of a lot worse, and in many places around Europe, it is.

If you want to be angry at him, go off.
 
And to be honest, I live with someone who is coming to terms with the fact that he can never return to his home country, because it's run by a lunatic, fascist dictator. And he lives in France instead, where he feels free and happy. It probably distorts my view on how awful Macron is. Of course, this might feel uninspiring, but perhaps it's all relative.
 
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