Club Ghibli #18 - Princess Mononoke (1997)

[Diddy]

Time for one of the big ones - Princess Mononoke didn't start the spread of Ghibli across the world, but it certainly got the planets aligning for "Spirited Away" a few years later. After the Ghibli interns didn't impress Club Ghibli with "Ocean Waves", are you ready for one of the big Miyazaki works?

So where were we in 1997? Ghibli had gone from a burgeoning anime studio in the early 80s with "Nausicaa" and "Laputa", through a two-pronged commercial and critical success with "My Neighbour Totoro" and "Grave of the Fireflies", and entered a never-repeated phase of prolific releases, with yearly productions from 1991's "Only Yesterday" to 1995's "Whisper of the heart" exploring human drama, tanuki survival, and pig pilots. What sort of films was this studio going to make?

Miyazaki gave a short-term answer by working on his long-gestating idea for "Princess Mononoke" - don't get it confused, this isn't a typical princess movie - and it features San, the fiercest female protagonist in a Ghibli movie yet. Set in Muromachi Period Japan (medieval times), mankind is encroaching on thickly forested areas and disrupting the natural balance with its new industries. Will the young warrior Ashitaka and San stop the humans wreaking irrevocable damage on the forest?

If Ghibli had firmly established itself as an anime titan, "Princess Mononoke" took the studio to unprecedented highs, claiming the title of the biggest grossing movie of all time in Japan until "Titanic", but avenged when "Spirited Away" claimed the title 4 years later (and kept for 19 years).



HOW THIS WORKS

In a semi book club format, the films will be announced, and over the course of about 2 weeks we can watch it and let everyone know what we thought. We are in the last third of the movies now, so I have decided to curate the last run and not pick the last big ones too soon - we've been really restrained I think so far, so thank you!

I was thinking 2 weeks should be enough time for most people to fit in a viewing at some point, but it's not strict so please come back when you have a chance, no pressure!
@Christian @Gangsta Nancy Lam @jivafox @COB @Haiku @ZenGiraffe @Lucille @KindaCool @Eyes @Queen of the Bay @RaspberrySwirl @RJN @Beverley @big ron @ButterTart @Mats (let me know if you don't want to be tagged any more)

 

[Eyes]

This is my favourite Ghibli movie as of last watching it, but it's been quite a few years so I was looking forward to it showing up here.

 

[Diddy]

This is my favourite Ghibli movie as of last watching it, but it's been quite a few years so I was looking forward to it showing up here.

I’ve been trying to hold on to some of the biggies (and one more big bad)

 

[Peekaboo]

I have watched this a couple of times since the first time I saw it in the 90s and it really keeps on GIVING. I love the fantastical elements of it but, like Nausicaa, it's a war film at its heart, only just slightly under it in terms of overall quality for me (I think Nausicaa is a more well-rounded character than San, so it makes me enjoy the film a bit MORE).

Some of the action sequences in this are proper DIVINE and I love the fact that the baddie, as per many other Miyazaki films, isn't a clear-cut baddie, you can sympathise with her and see her point of view. There's hardly ever any BLACK and WHITES in Miyazaki's films and I love him for it!

 

[Diddy]

I have watched this a couple of times since the first time I saw it in the 90s and it really keeps on GIVING. I love the fantastical elements of it but, like Nausicaa, it's a war film at its heart, only just slightly under it in terms of overall quality for me (I think Nausicaa is a more well-rounded character than San, so it makes me enjoy the film a bit MORE).

Some of the action sequences in this are proper DIVINE and I love the fact that the baddie, as per many other Miyazaki films, isn't a clear-cut baddie, you can sympathise with her and see her point of view. There's hardly ever any BLACK and WHITES in Miyazaki's films and I love him for it!

I think this is probably where I’m going to land on it too. I agree with the black and whites too - watching all these Ghibli movies at the same time as a lot of western animations really has ruined the latter for me

 

[Lucille]

My favourite Ghibli film, perfect, NO NOTES!

 

[Christian]

My introduction to Ghibli and what got me hooked. It's still one of my favourites.

 

[Diddy]

My favourite Ghibli film, perfect, NO NOTES!

Well some particulars would be lovely, that’s kind of the POINT

 

[Diddy]

No but really @Lucille what was the reason?

WHAT WAS THE REASSOOOOOON?

 

[Marina Salty]

 

[Diddy]

Don’t know what I’m going to do when this is all over

I guess I’ll finally watch all the Mamoru Hosoda movies - you’re all welcome to join me!

 

[Marina Salty]

You should watch that Japanese thing with the roman baths that's on netflix once this is done.

 

[Diddy]

You should watch that Japanese thing with the roman baths that's on netflix once this is done.

I already watched that, and it was good!

 

[Diddy]

How are we doing with this?
@Eyes and @Queen of the Bay are making plans I guess, I’ll watch it tonight

And @Christian @Lucille yasss give us nothing in this discussion thread have you been in a book club before?

 

[Eyes]

This is my favourite Ghibli movie as of last watching it, but it's been quite a few years so I was looking forward to it showing up here.

I obviously of course meant to add a lot more to this but I did need to see it again. SO:

This really works for me because it's got a lot of complexity to it. It could just be a tale about the young heroic couple defending the forest from human encroachment and it works on that level but it's also got a lot of allegorical weight behind it too. Like, it isn't a complete repudiation of progress, the Ironworks town is presented in a somewhat positive light and even at the end it's implied that they'll rebuild, and also the forest creatures are presented as violent and backwards. There's this moment when the boars and the wolves are meeting that it feels very much like the meeting of two feudal human lords with their own selfish desires and cultural hangups. Especially the boars, my god if Okkoto isn't the picture of a crusty old guard king whose stubbornness leads to his downfall.

I love it a lot because of this, on the surface it's a really cool Ghibli film with lots of action and thrill, with characters you're not sure on who to support, and then you go deeper and it's a repudiation of the ideas that anything is fixed or has essential qualities in this world. Nature is to be respected (and Ashitaka in particular is very respectful towards nature) until it becomes a blind force that lashes out and puts people in danger. People are fine to work and start progressing, until their paranoia causes them to destroy things and risk what they've built. San is this cool strong individual woman, which is a great trope, but the film criticises that too, as it also leads her rejecting her humanity and her natural community. The Ironworks villagers are presented as tough go-getters, but they're also ruthless industrialists and end up losing their livelihood through hubris.

great movie and the medieval Japan setting in the mountains is just the icing on the ckae

 

[Diddy]

Ooh say repudiation again

 

[Marina Salty]

Ooh say repudiation again

Concupiscence!

Haven't watched yet, but probably will on Monday.

 

[Diddy]

Concupiscence!

Haven't watched yet, but probably will on Monday.

Ok I can hold out a bit longer!

And are you ever going to watch Grave of the Fireflies? I really think you’re missing out

 

[Marina Salty]

Still not looking forward to that one, but I will

 

[Diddy]

Still not looking forward to that one, but I will

It’s not like dragging you through the dirt it’s fine
Just don’t try and find a good day to watch it, just do it

 

[Diddy]

I feel like I will incur the wrath of the cursed pig demons, but this has never made it to God-tier Ghibli for me. I can appreciate it as a grand work and everything so don't drag me through the poison sludge yet. I think it's a combination of it not really being a theme that spoke to me, and as such it felt a bit drawn-out. It started strong and ended thrillingly, but the 1/3 and 2/3 marks sagged a bit for me.

The main protagonists were solid - Ashitaka is good people, brave and smart. Actually I'd say - and this feels weird considering how much stock the story has in women - San gets less interesting the more I know about her. Not a wolf not yet a woman is a strong concept, but I didn't really get her point of view, all the discussion of the film was left to Ashitaka, which just felt odd in a Ghibli movie (especially since San is the title character).

I think the issue for me is that it got really into the weeds with the lore - the boar lords, and warring samurai armies - I didn't think any of them added much to it. Especially the human conflicts just got me confused and bored. It's a shame because Ashitaka, Team Wolf and Team Eboshi were pretty engaging, I wish it had been left at that. Who was that Dungeon Master-looking guy? Just some guy in a village, but ended up like the final antagonist?? Who what why where when?

But Ghibli never lets down on the visuals, it all felt so solid and beautiful. And the spiritual elements of the forest are iconic - the lumpy little Kodama, the Deer God and the Night Walker, and horrid little monkeys. And the soundtrack sends me every time. I'd say MOST of the Ghibli movies have made me tear up at least once, but it was only the soundtrack doing it for me this time, like when the mountain re-grows.

OH OH and didn't Eboshi's main bodyguard look just like Yubaba's green rolling heads from Spirited Away?

Anyway, I respect this film, even if I find it a slog in some places. I hold my opinion above my head, to the oncoming deluge of deathslime.

 

[Diddy]

I wonder if I’m being too harsh on it. I suppose I didn’t really come for it, and this is relative to the other Ghiblies

Anyway perched for @Queen of the Bay ’s hot take

(Also “start Ghibli thread” is on my rollover chores list)

 

[Marina Salty]

Currently throwing away accumulated unnecessary things taking space in my storage spaces, it's 37C and am melting.
This better be good cause I want to watch something relaxing when am done throwing all the junk.

 

[Diddy]

Currently throwing away accumulated unnecessary things taking space in my storage spaces, it's 37C and am melting.
This better be good cause I want to watch something relaxing when am done throwing all the junk.

I’m not sure relaxing is the word I would choose but it’ll take you out of your chaos, and it sparked joy for several moopers

 

[Marina Salty]

I give this a 9. Was thinking of an 8 because of how it handled the ending, but then that would be unfair to how it handled the duration, which was astonishingly interesting, fast paced and full of events. I liked the depth of the characters, basically everyone except the messianic ositaka is portrayed in many colours, but I also like a good messianic hero and he was great at the job. Visually gorgeous again. Basically the only thing missing was the happily ever after, I suppose in a sense it's kind of insinuated, but knowing human nature we cannot trust humans not to exploit the forest again and lead to a new war.

 

[Diddy]

I give this a 9. Was thinking of an 8 because of how it handled the ending, but then that would be unfair to how it handled the duration, which was astonishingly interesting, fast paced and full of events. I liked the depth of the characters, basically everyone except the messianic ositaka is portrayed in many colours, but I also like a good messianic hero and he was great at the job. Visually gorgeous again. Basically the only thing missing was the happily ever after, I suppose in a sense it's kind of insinuated, but knowing human nature we cannot trust humans not to exploit the forest again and lead to a new war.

I feel like we ended up with the same sort of vibe, but through different routes - I liked the ending but not the pacing

I didn’t think of Ashitaka as messianic either, I felt more like he just didn’t have a stake on either side, he was just anti-war and just wanted his spaghetti curse gone.

I mean he was really good at everything so I sort of get what you mean (oh right and he did come back from a mortal wound )

And yeah the ending wasn’t happily ever after, but that’s fine for me - I took it to mean that nature and human industry are fundamentally incompatible and the answer isn’t for one to conquer the other, but somehow make it work. The Deer God died - that wasn’t totally clear until someone said so - but then the Kodama came back so..

I guess most of the gods are gone too, the boars and the wolf - There’s no ending because this is just the start of a new chapter, I think.

Anyway I’m glad you liked it <3

 

[Diddy]

Will we ever know what @Lucille thought?

 

[Diddy]

Ok new thread coming tonight - let’s just say it’ll be a change of pace

 

[Marina Salty]

I didn't say anything about Princess herself, but what was to say really, her most interesting feature was that Ashitaka was in love with her.

 

[Pipo]