Midnights - Chart Tracker (1.5m+ US debut)

Alla said:
Btw @RJN before you spend a fortune, sales and airplay aditional info is only available since 1984, when they started publishing them in the magazine.
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Hmm I think I still want it :D

Maybe I’ll find a (illegal) free online copy
 
Jark said:
there is no issue with variants. everyone out there is doing it. it's not cheating, it's legit. who cares if 1.1m individuals didn't buy the album.
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I think this really is up for discussion. Financially, yes- which, let’s face it, is the only reason that record companies exist and most music gets made. Cultural, groundbreaking relevance, though? Debatable.

Taylor is perhaps a bad example as she is obviously ridiculously huge on both counts.

Let’s take other examples- if Kylie’s 350 variants of Disco mean she still gets to make music in this era, then yeah, that’s absolutely fine. But does it make her the relevant cultural phenomenon having the comeback of her life like BMG would have you believe? Hmm.

I think the variant market is ridiculous. I’m actually not against it, but it needs to be recognised for what it is, and that is not some artistic phenomenon.
 
being bigger than the Beatles is debatable, but bigger than Madonna is not even a debate at this point and i say this as a Madge stan.
 
joanne said:
being bigger than the Beatles is debatable, but bigger than Madonna is not even a debate at this point and i say this as a Madge stan.
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It’s not even a debate?
I feel like if we said the answer on the count of three we might have different answers
 
only the hardcore Madge stan will debate. the numbers speak for themselves, don't they? 17 years into their careers. Madge was debuting 450k first week in the US at the hight of album sales. Taylor is doing more than thrice Music's numbers in an album sales climate that's 6 times worse than 2000.

impromptu album battle

Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight

5:5 :o
 
joanne said:
only the hardcore Madge stan will debate. the numbers speak for themselves, don't they? 17 years into their careers. Madge was debuting 450k first week in the US at the hight of album sales. Taylor is doing more than thrice Music's numbers in an album sales climate that's 6 times worse than 2000.

impromptu album battle

Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight

5:5 :o
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Actually, there’s a good comparison right there.

How much extra would Music have sold on multiple formats considering it only came out on CD and a limited vinyl run when no one bought vinyl, Music’s numbers didn’t have the benefit of streaming, Music will probably be a long term bigger physical seller than Midnights, is Taylor having the biggest single hit of her career as Madonna was at that point in the US….I could go on.

Or, more to the point, it’s not actually a comparison at all and you’re talking out of your arse.
 
Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight


And what about it @joanne ?
 
Suedey said:
Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight


And what about it @joanne ?
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I was about to berate you for being a lunatic Madonna fan but then when I read through that list I realised I could only vote the same way.
 
Suedey said:
Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight


And what about it @joanne ?
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I think the real question is how things will compare with the NEXT 5 albums!
 
It's only really new to the albums market; multiple variants on singles were a thing when I was growing up with Frankie Goes To Hollywood releasing a new version of Two Tribes every week or so to keep momentum and indie bands being squeezed up the charts with live EPs, 12s with different mixes and b-sides etc etc. Rules were introduced to choke it off and those rules became increasingly silly.

There is no way the chart compilers would start ruling against it for albums now because it would kill the market as well as being hard to enforce (for example - how many "formats" of 'Revolver' have there been over the years? Would the new box set be one too many?) but I do feel it has gone too far.
 
octophone said:
It's only really new to the albums market; multiple variants on singles were a thing when I was growing up with Frankie Goes To Hollywood releasing a new version of Two Tribes every week or so to keep momentum and indie bands being squeezed up the charts with live EPs, 12s with different mixes and b-sides etc etc. Rules were introduced to choke it off and those rules became increasingly silly.

There is no way the chart compilers would start ruling against it for albums now because it would kill the market as well as being hard to enforce (for example - how many "formats" of 'Revolver' have there been over the years? Would the new box set be one too many?) but I do feel it has gone too far.
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For me it's the annoying repackaging. I mean, fill your boots if you want 12 copies of Midnights or Disco you'll never play, but don't bring it out with another 5 songs on it in six months' time. THAT'S the piss take right there.
 
joanne said:
only the hardcore Madge stan will debate. the numbers speak for themselves, don't they? 17 years into their careers. Madge was debuting 450k first week in the US at the hight of album sales. Taylor is doing more than thrice Music's numbers in an album sales climate that's 6 times worse than 2000.

impromptu album battle

Madonna vs Taylor Swift
Lika A Virgin vs Fearless
True Blue vs Speak Now
Like A Prayer vs Red
Erotica vs 1989
Bedtime Story vs reputation
Ray of Light vs Lover
Music vs folklore
American Life vs evermore
Confessions on a Dancefloor vs Midnight

5:5 :o
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How conclusive that battle is! :D
 
Sheena said:
For me it's the annoying repackaging. I mean, fill your boots if you want 12 copies of Midnights or Disco you'll never play, but don't bring it out with another 5 songs on it in six months' time. THAT'S the piss take right there.
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Yes! I hate THAT.
 
People peak at different times - I don’t see how much sense it makes to compare Taylor reaching a peak now with Madonna when she wasn’t at her peak?

It’s like comparing Beyoncé having a great year now, with Madonna in her Hard Candy era. Sure one moment is bigger than another but it doesn’t really mean anything
 
Diddy said:
People peak at different times - I don’t see how much sense it makes to compare Taylor reaching a peak now with Madonna when she wasn’t at her peak?

It’s like comparing Beyoncé having a great year now, with Madonna in her Hard Candy era. Sure one moment is bigger than another but it doesn’t really mean anything
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yes yes but it's Tuesday so everybody needs to get their post count in. there are no more Midnights til midnight!
 
To be honest it’s nearly impossible to compare artists from different eras, as depending on when you were a certain age with a certain interest in music is always going to skew your opinion, and consumption methods have changed so much with each decade that you cannot objectively pit them against each other.

I do think there is some merit though in placing the likes of Swift alongside some on the big guns in the sense that logically someone has to be ‘the biggest thing since sliced bread’ for each generation, and based on the last 15 years that certainly would be her for the late millennials/early Gen Z’s.
 
Expected to do another 310k in its second week in the USA. 102k pure sales.
 
Devil said:
To be honest it’s nearly impossible to compare artists from different eras, as depending on when you were a certain age with a certain interest in music is always going to skew your opinion, and consumption methods have changed so much with each decade that you cannot objectively pit them against each other.

I do think there is some merit though in placing the likes of Swift alongside some on the big guns in the sense that logically someone has to be ‘the biggest thing since sliced bread’ for each generation, and based on the last 15 years that certainly would be her for the late millennials/early Gen Z’s.
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This. I think the point is only strengthened when you move away from sales data (as it’s incomparable) to cultural impact.

The older generation will scoff at the prospect of newer person being the new Madonna/Michael Jackson/Beatles/whatever because their personal historical relationship/lived experience will objectively oppose that view, similarly the next younger generations will be increasingly disassociated from that lived experience and strength of cultural impact and have it heightened with the new ingenue who is of their era.
 
Entirely agreed. I want to make clear I was just debunking Joanne’s ridiculous comment based on only one parameter rather than being that old person blindly going for Madonna. Swift is absolutely, insanely massive and has been for some time- she is absolutely the artist of the generation. And well deserved, I think.
 
Yes that’s it, it’s sort of impossible to say who is bigger or more important etc because it’s too nebulous a concept and all too easy for people to Cherry-pick what we metric leads to the answer they want.

Madonna was massive, Taylor is massive, those aren’t mutually exclusive
 
It has been quite fun to watch the meltdown on a certain forum over the US Top 10 and all the old bastards clinging onto the 60s whining abut how it;s not a proper chart any more etc while the nurse prepares their meds.
 
I’m
octophone said:
It has been quite fun to watch the meltdown on a certain forum over the US Top 10 and all the old bastards clinging onto the 60s whining abut how it;s not a proper chart any more etc while the nurse prepares their meds.
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It's not just the 60s lot. A lot of the Madonna fans are doing the same thing :D
 
octophone said:
It has been quite fun to watch the meltdown on a certain forum over the US Top 10 and all the old bastards clinging onto the 60s whining abut how it;s not a proper chart any more etc while the nurse prepares their meds.
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Weren’t we all doing this when Ed Sheeran did this pre-rule change? :D

I certainly HOPE SO!
 
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