Israel-Gaza War

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Absolute crackpot ideology.

“They brought it on themselves” is such an IRONY.
 
Some of the Western positions on this are utterly baffling. Like, hearing yesterday ok the radio that our Foreign Secretary said that the aid now reaching Gaza through the southern corridor was just a start and that more would need to come… all while the Prime Minister plants himself firmly behind Israel as if they aren’t the reason Palestinians need aid in the first place.

I recognise that Governments tread these fine lines all the time but still…
 
It makes me sick honestly, as does Biden committing $100m of humanitarian aid to Gaza while also giving Israel magnitudes more in military aid AND refusing to call for a ceasefire :(
 
I do gag at how fucking basic and idiotic Israeli government propaganda is. Clapping back at celebrities and human rights institutions with the social media nous of a 14-year-old girl. Resorting to AI to spread pictures of Hamas leaders living it up and the world taking to the streets in support for Israel. Now they expect us to believe that Hamas conveniently left instructions on how to build a CHEMICAL WEAPON at the site of the massacres they committed - instructions emblazoned with the AL QAEDA logo at that?! It's giving tired. Except time and time again the Western media lap that shit up. I guess it helps that they're all Islamophobic as fuck and truly believe that Hamas and ISIS and AL Qaeda and all Muslims are one and the same.

I really hope it means they're losing.
 
Also, Beer Korma turning up at a mosque in South Wales and then posting about how he told them that Hamas needs to release the hostages? And not ONE word of concern or humanity towards British Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims? Somebody PLEASE, put her in the bin!
 
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Also, so we don't look away: 5,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel, 2,000 of whom are children. The photographs and videos coming out of Gaza are far fewer now, given Israel's targeting of journalists and switching off of electricity, but I cannot begin to spell out how grotesque they are. Seeing bloody babies pulled out of the rubble, children crying at their dead mothers feet, fathers killed with their children in their arms... Despite the attempts to dehumanise them, there is so much humanity there. Men comforting shocked babies. Children playing games in hospital corridors. On both sides. It says everything that the Israeli families whose loved ones Hamas killed are the few in the country demanding an end to the bombing.
 
Beverley said:
I do gag at how fucking basic and idiotic Israeli government propaganda is. Clapping back at celebrities and human rights institutions with the social media nous of a 14-year-old girl. Resorting to AI to spread pictures of Hamas leaders living it up and the world taking to the streets in support for Israel. Now they expect us to believe that Hamas conveniently left instructions on how to build a CHEMICAL WEAPON at the site of the massacres they committed - instructions emblazoned with the AL QAEDA logo at that?! It's giving tired. Except time and time again the Western media lap that shit up. I guess it helps that they're all Islamophobic as fuck and truly believe that Hamas and ISIS and AL Qaeda and all Muslims are one and the same.

I really hope it means they're losing.
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It does feel a bit like they're doing the laziest propaganda on purpose because they know it'll be repeated uncritically by the US and other allies sometimes...



 
Completely @COB. It's frustrating how often claims by an Israeli ambassador, or IOF leader or right-wing think-tanker are spread on media channels without any critical pushback. The worst thing has been seeing that 95-year-old soldier being given a platform on Channel 4 to euphemise his views. The guy participated in one of the most horrific massacres of Palestinians in 1948 (Deir Yassin, in case any of you want to look it up), was never held accountable, and is now on TV saying that Israel should 'Finish them off and don't leave anybody behind.'
 
Also, can we talk about the West Bank and the way that about 9 villages have been entirely depopulated, scores have been killed by settlers, and the IOF bombed and bulldozed several houses, and imprisoned another 5000 (!) Palestinians? Just in case any of us thought this was about Hamas...
 
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So I’d like someone to explain this latest ideology that suggests supporting a free Palestine is some sort of illegal intolerance or prejudice? When did that become a thing?

Every time I see a mention of a pro-Israel protest it’s peaceful and democratic, but a pro-Palestine one (which, as far as I can tell, is not anti-Israeli, and doesn’t need to be given there are far more important matters to be concerned with such as the lives and livelihood of millions of innocent and oppressed people) is considered wrong and it really concerns me that now this is being framed as illegal or problematic thinking. I’ve seen a similar article from a chief of police who is asking for more powers to make Pro-Palestine protesting as an offence. WHY? Using the jihad chant, which is completely separate and a tiny, tiny fraction of the pro Palestine movement, shouldn’t influence what is considered appropriate when it comes to supporting Palestine. Most people are simply campaigning for human rights.

I feel like I’m living in an upside world where nothing makes sense.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tube driver suspended over pro-Palestinian chant

A Tube driver appeared to be heard chanting "free Palestine" over the train's public address system.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
funky said:
So I’d like someone to explain this latest ideology that suggests supporting a free Palestine is some sort of illegal intolerance or prejudice? When did that become a thing?

Every time I see a mention of a pro-Israel protest it’s peaceful and democratic, but a pro-Palestine one (which, as far as I can tell, is not anti-Israeli, and doesn’t need to be given there are far more important matters to be concerned with such as the lives and livelihood of millions of innocent and oppressed people) is considered wrong and it really concerns me that now this is being framed as illegal or problematic thinking. I’ve seen a similar article from a chief of police who is asking for more powers to make Pro-Palestine protesting as an offence. WHY? Using the jihad chant, which is completely separate and a tiny, tiny fraction of the pro Palestine movement, shouldn’t influence what is considered appropriate when it comes to supporting Palestine. Most people are simply campaigning for human rights.

I feel like I’m living in an upside world where nothing makes sense.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tube driver suspended over pro-Palestinian chant

A Tube driver appeared to be heard chanting "free Palestine" over the train's public address system.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

I agree with your point broadly, but I do think it's inappropriate and unprofessional for a tube driver to be making political statements over the speaker system.
 
I read into it and I don’t think he was being political. He said “I hope everyone has a good day today and stays safe” and then he repeated the chant that was being shouted on the tube which was Free Palestine.

I think there’s always an argument to say that people shouldn’t be political in their place of work, but in the moment he probably just thought (as I would) that he was supporting human rights, not supporting a political movement.

That’s where people aren’t distinguishing at the moment, and I feel that it should be distinguished because if we suppress the support of human rights for fear of it being political we enter very dangerous ground regarding free speech and peaceful protesting.
 
We’re global pariahs, again. Thanks Rishi you useless sack of shit
 
The worst bit is that he's not the political leader of Switzerland or some random country with zero interference or moral/historical responsibility in Palestine and the Middle East.
 
I cannot get over how angry and awful this makes me feel. How do we look at the world in the same way again? How do we deal with those who are indifferent? Or believe the deaths of Palestinians are necessary or just some regrettable collateral?
 
I read an interesting interview with one of the most pre-eminent Palestinian historians, and he says that for the struggle for Palestinian rights and dignity to succeed, we have to persuade the people who live in the countries that maintain and support the Israel colony. So I think that means we need to go out there and speak to our people, and persuade them to support the cause. Get to it, moppers, I’m waiting. 💜
 
funky said:
So I’d like someone to explain this latest ideology that suggests supporting a free Palestine is some sort of illegal intolerance or prejudice? When did that become a thing?

Every time I see a mention of a pro-Israel protest it’s peaceful and democratic, but a pro-Palestine one (which, as far as I can tell, is not anti-Israeli, and doesn’t need to be given there are far more important matters to be concerned with such as the lives and livelihood of millions of innocent and oppressed people) is considered wrong and it really concerns me that now this is being framed as illegal or problematic thinking. I’ve seen a similar article from a chief of police who is asking for more powers to make Pro-Palestine protesting as an offence. WHY? Using the jihad chant, which is completely separate and a tiny, tiny fraction of the pro Palestine movement, shouldn’t influence what is considered appropriate when it comes to supporting Palestine. Most people are simply campaigning for human rights.

I feel like I’m living in an upside world where nothing makes sense.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tube driver suspended over pro-Palestinian chant

A Tube driver appeared to be heard chanting "free Palestine" over the train's public address system.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

@funky, you want me to answer this?
 
Beverley said:
I cannot get over how angry and awful this makes me feel. How do we look at the world in the same way again? How do we deal with those who are indifferent? Or believe the deaths of Palestinians are necessary or just some regrettable collateral?
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I’m struggling with all the anger, like how do you engage with this system after this.
 
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Phoenix said:
I’m struggling with all the anger, like how do you engage with this system after this.
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I don't know if I can. I certainly won't vote for Labour again (unless my life depended on it). I just tell myself that there is a God and one day, we will all stand before Her for judgment.
 
Beverley said:
I don't know if I can. I certainly won't vote for Labour again (unless my life depended on it). I just tell myself that there is a God and one day, we will all stand before Her for judgment.
Click to expand...

Same (well not the god part) but I won’t be voting Liberal and I’m sure as hell not voting NDP after they ousted the one MP who stood up and condemned Israel. I guess I’ll just sit and watch the shit burn because why should I vote for people who are ok with genocide.
 
I mean these are the most powerful decision makers in the world. There IS no one or anything above them that they have to answer to. That includes subjective man-made moral standards. In the face of real and tangible national interests, our abstract ideas of "evil" become completely arbitrary and futile.
 
Bill Maher was doing the rounds recently (well, certain Hollywood comediennes were posting about him) talking about how people who deny Israel are stupid because Jewish people were living there long before a single Muslim walked across the land.

He's an American right? He understands the argument he's making basically suggests he should give up his mansion and hand it back to the Native Americans.

No single person has the right to say who owns what land anymore; it's arbitrary because you can't undo thousands of years of imperialism and colonialism. Jewish people have every right to settle there, of course they do. But the American argument makes NO SENSE.

Is this propaganda, this protected narrative, simply Western Stubbornness, like, we created this mess so we have to see it through no matter what, or is there a more sinister underlying reason why American officials would outright DENY 7,000 deaths? I'm willing to turn to CONSPIRACY THEORIES at this point because nothing else makes any sense.
 
Also on a less evil but still pig-headed note, I'm not interested in Kier Starmer reversing his position on the Middle East because he's under pressure to do so. I'm interesting in hearing from people who can see these things for themselves.
 
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