Labour: The Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?

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I don't think that parallel is very accurate actually. the split in attitudes in the UK is nothing like the US. a majority of people in the UK seem to be pro Palestine and I don't think there's any split down party lines. it's always been utterly idiotic for Keir to take this position when he doesn't even stand to gain from it politically. but then that is kind of the man in a nutshell. highly stubborn and fixated on things that either don't matter or actively create divisions within labour.
 
bypass said:
Ok. So when have these questions been directed at the actual Prime Minister? And the actual government - the one that is on the verge of stripping human rights away from 65 approx million people?
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Well, this is what I was saying - are we only seeing Starmer and just not being shown when similar questions are asked of Government ministers or Sunak himself?
 
Jark said:
I don't think that parallel is very accurate actually. the split in attitudes in the UK is nothing like the US. a majority of people in the UK seem to be pro Palestine and I don't think there's any split down party lines. it's always been utterly idiotic for Keir to take this position when he doesn't even stand to gain from it politically. but then that is kind of the man in a nutshell. highly stubborn and fixated on things that either don't matter or actively create divisions within labour.
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I strongly disagree with Starmer's stance but you're being quite unrealistic with this take IMO. It seems clear that a huge part of Starmer's motivation for resisting a ceasefire is his absolute terror of reviving the antisemitism in Labour debate. There would absolutely be a backlash if he backed a ceasefire, so in a very real sense he can't win. He's in a much more difficult position than Sunak in that regard, the Tories have never courted Muslim votes in any meaningful way so they'll never face that same kind of existential crisis. At this point outright Islamophobia is practically baked into the Tory party's pitch to voters.

Whipping against the Lib Dem ceasefire amendment vote recently demonstrated this. You had Labour MPs in Muslim-heavy constituencies put a position of having to either defy the whip or alienate huge numbers of constituents. For the Tories this is evidently not as much of a concern, hence you've heard barely a peep from them on the issue.
 
I guess this can go here

Merry Christmas yet again from the Blairs, and happy 10 years anniversary to the Christmas Card of the century.


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I actually can’t decipher what that means at all, but I will say that somebody would have to be SO HOT for me to overlook him being a child murderer.
 
It's perfectly clear what she meant if you read the full quote. She's saying that if it turns out that investing 28 billion in green projects murdered a child then Labour won't do it any more but if it turns out that the green projects just knocked the child about a bit then they would still be fine with it.
 
The way they seem to have announced this is being ditched about sixty times at this point. Stop! Stop! Ed Milliband's dreams are already dead.
 
Annoyingly I think I’m this part of the plan to neutralise any and all attack lines during the election. It’s stupid though, because what the public need and expect during the next parliament is investment, particularly into public services. If they don’t do that then it will be a short tenure.

I continue to believe it will be different once in power. But there was a way to communicate this policy to make it appealing (call it an ‘industry strategy’ at the very least) rather than it apparently becoming a noose around their necks.

Crucially what they need to do (gently) is to unpick the damage Osborne started in 2010. I think they know this, but the skittishness is unbecoming, if understandable. If the public start seeing a difference in their communities within five years, then they’re likely to be in power for a long run.
 
environmental policy is POPULAR! who is advising these freaks? some Eton graduate who's probably a Tory usually but has decided to go where the wind blows this time? do they have any understanding at all of normal people? how can imaginary damage control be a way to get into government? this is not a surprise, but for fuck's sake.
 
gggggg said:
...the skittishness is unbecoming, if understandable. If the public start seeing a difference in their communities within five years, then they’re likely to be in power for a long run.
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the public are literally DYING for ANYONE BUT THE TORIES! Labour have never been in a stronger position to put out a bold manifesto that takes a major swing at presenting a vision for this country. their refusal to do or say anything remotely ambitious is not "understandable" to me. quite the opposite, it will hurt them. where is the vision!
 
Jark said:
how can imaginary damage control be a way to get into government?
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When the other side is so fucked that they don't NEED to stand for anything.

I agree, it's BOLLOCKS, but I still maintain that it's a strategy that gets them in and we build left from there.
 
They've recently done the introductions with the civil servants haven't they? They've probably realised we're SKINT.
 
Jark said:
the public are literally DYING for ANYONE BUT THE TORIES! Labour have never been in a stronger position to put out a bold manifesto that takes a major swing at presenting a vision for this country. their refusal to do or say anything remotely ambitious is not "understandable" to me. quite the opposite, it will hurt them. where is the vision!
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I mean understandable in the context of Labour Party mentality, not personally.

There’s a lot to suggest that a big, wide ranging policy platform is actually detrimental to electoral success. It’s harder to build trust that it’ll be successful, and often raises more uncomfortable questions. There are reasons why Labour’s 2019 manifesto was distrusted, despite the individual policies being popular. In totality it seemed unachievable, particularly by those on the bottom rung of the social ladder who know viscerally that they are most negatively affected by radical change of any stripe.

In 2024 the ‘Change’ message might just be enough - so why muddle it?
 
Environmental policies unfortunately are absolutely not popular in the kind of rural and working class seats Labour are targeting. Look at all the protests going on in Europe right now.

It's the same old story - they're betting that Labour's core voters will bitch and moan but ultimately vote for them anyway, while doing everything possible not to scare off the swing voters.
 
The finances are so tight and the Tories are determined to give away every possible bit of fiscal wiggle room in irresponsible tax cuts before the general election. We’re still likely two fiscal events away from the general election, but as it stands they can’t commit to the £28 billion without committing to major tax increases, cutting public spending either further, publishing dodgy costings, or publishing no numbers at all. (Tories tend to do the latter with their manifestos and get away with it every time.)
 
Imagine thinking that Starmer will turn left as soon as he's in Number 10. Jark gets it.
 
whatever they promise, Starmer and these diet coke Tories will be MORE centre-right or all-out right wing in government than out of it and that's blindingly apparent. it's 2024. nobody is getting into gov and then taking a sharp left turn.
 
It’s not about turning left or right or whatever on the political spectrum. It’s about enacting the correct policies to enable communities to be better off. It’s a balancing act. Tribalism gets us nowhere.
 
GinAg (39) said:
They've recently done the introductions with the civil servants haven't they? They've probably realised we're SKINT.
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I hope somebody warns Wes Streeting before he spunks the entire NHS budget on his very sensible brand new wards to protect women from trans people policy.
 
GNL said:
I hope somebody warns Wes Streeting before he spunks the entire NHS budget on his very sensible brand new wards to protect women from trans people policy.
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...which isn't in any way designed to put financial and media pressure on the NHS thus bringing it to its knees once and for all and thus not only triggering the Big Sell Off but allowing him to blame trans people for it, of course it isn't, oh dear me no, good gracious, what a thought etc.
 
Yes because that’s what is going to happen…

The internet has truly rotted our brains.
 
I understand the need to tread carefully when dealing with Tory press and winning from the centre ground(you're not going to win from the far left with the way the UK media is controlled/presented, that's just a fact - sorry - im not saying its right because it isn't but those are the cards we are dealt, which is why after PR, press regulation is desperately needed in Britain)...that being said the constant flip flopping is a bad look.

I'm not a Starmer/Labour enthusiast by any stretch. Do I think they are winning the next election? Yes. Will I be relieved to see the Tories go? Yes.

But the UK needs radical change, and unless Labour set to work right away on serious policy change...I'm very sceptical they are going to deliver any type of meaningful change in 4-5 years to convince the public to keep them in place.

In short and it pains me to say it...the UK is pretty fucked
 
Imagine if they just called it a £28bn ‘Industrial Investment Strategy’ instead.
 
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