The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

When half the world is in tatters because Iraq had to side with America against Iran who gets support from Russia who is threatened by India who is attacked by Pakistan and China who gets warned by South Korea and Japan, let's all remember that it was because of the IDF and its small dick energy.
 
If there's one thing we can count on is that Moopy will be totally objective on the issue and not assume the moral high ground.
 
So for now the attack comprised a total of 110 ballistic missiles, 185 unmanned aerial vehicle and 36 cruise missiles. 99% were intercepted.
 
KindaCool said:
If there's one thing we can count on is that Moopy will be totally objective on the issue and not assume the moral high ground.
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the way you just implied that the posts and posters you don't agree with on "this issue"... are morally sound. interesting.
 
What would an objective opinion even look like?

This is a situation involving a terrorist group targeting civilians, a government responding by becoming itself a terrorist group targeting civilians, and the threat of this escalating into a full blown world war that will draw all of us in.

Who would we deem to be objective?
 
Jark said:
the way you just implied that the posts and posters you don't agree with on "this issue"... are morally sound. interesting.
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I implied nothing. Because I don't "agree" OR disagree with anyone. Because there's nothing in this universe that says ANY party is more 'right' than another. It all comes down to your relative experience/relationship with this conflict. All are equally 'right'.
 
Shoat said:
What would an objective opinion even look like?

This is a situation involving a terrorist group targeting civilians, a government responding by becoming itself a terrorist group targeting civilians, and the threat of this escalating into a full blown world war that will draw all of us in.

Who would we deem to be objective?
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I agree. There IS no objective opinion on this or any conflict. People just seem to forget that.
 
Then why make backhanded comments implying that people should be objective?

Reading the difference in language between all the international responses today is fascinating but so frustrating.
 
Rowan Tree 🌳 said:
Then why make backhanded comments implying that people should be objective?

Reading the difference in language between all the international responses today is fascinating but so frustrating.
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Because people SAY they 'respect' that but I don't think people always behave like it. There's always an underlying smugness that a plurality of views is just an illusion. That you just gotta 'humor' the other side because ultimately they're just deluded and crazy.
 
KindaCool said:
Because people SAY they 'respect' that but I don't think people always behave like it. There's always an underlying smugness that a plurality of views is just an illusion.
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Do you not see the irony in highlighting smugness when you're making snarky/sarcastic posts like the above that imply moral and intellectual superiority? And it's far from the first time.

It's a deeply contentious topic which people are rightly going to have strong opinions on and be vocal about, giving the horrors taking place daily. There's really no need.
 
Rowan Tree 🌳 said:
Do you not see the irony in highlighting smugness when you're making snarky/sarcastic posts like the above that imply moral and intellectual superiority? And it's far from the first time.
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I mean sure it was a little sharp, but it was meant to highlight the moral superiority I see, not exacerbate it. Because I still see it in this thread. And I still think there are people here who will simply not accept that any more than one view is possible on any part of this conflict. Which is fine, but just come out and say it.
 
The quality of discourse in this thread is giving me (do we really need to have the same argument, rinse and repeat)

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I mean far be it from me to 'support' war :zombie: but I feel this was probably the best possible outcome of this incident. Iran certainly has much greater offensive capacities than what they utilized against Israel. The attack had to be strong enough to appease whatever domestic desires for retribution came after the hit on their consular annex in Damascus (I haven't seen anything specifically about this, but I am assuming there were at least some citizens in Iran who wanted payback for that), while also not being too strong as to provoke the Israelis into upping the degree of violence again (as they did when they hit the consular annex in the first place). The attack was balanced to make Iran look strong and capable internally and externally (and they almost certainly learned a lot about Israeli defensive systems in the process), while also allowing the Israelis an out from making another step forward toward all-out war. It was probably the best possible outcome of this incident, and I'm glad cooler heads prevailed in Tehran. It doesn't fundamentally change anything on either side of the strategic equation, except I guess to squash any doubts that the Saudis would pick Israel over Iran when things moved from discourse to missiles flying over their territory.
 
Yep. The clarity on the Saudi position last night is so significant. We know Saudi was very close to formalising relations with Israel before 7/10 - obviously that won’t happen now but Iran clearly remains the enemy. Israel really isn’t a threat. And in line behind Saudi Arabia fall, at the very least, the UAE and Bahrain.
 
An astute reading. Both sides can claim a ‘win’.

It has (hopefully) reminded Netanyahu that he relies on US, UK, France, Jordan and other associated Arab states for defence in the region.
 
Now Netanyahu needs to stop being a nutcase and let the humanitarian aid in. Iran knew damn well the Iron Dome would stop those attacks. Next time, Israel won't be so lucky.
 
So it turns out that several Arab states helped defending Israel against Iran’s missile attack; Jordan by actively shooting down Iranian missiles, Saudi, UAE and other Gulf states by sharing intel and opening their airspace to American/allied warplanes. Saudi arabia by also allegedly intercepting missiles shot by the Houthi rebels in Yemen.

A rather remarkable but expected turn of events; it just goes to show that this is much bigger than the Palestinian issue (which doesn’t excuse Israel’s actions) and that half of the countries in that region would rather side with Israel than with Iran.
 
That's because Israel is just a tool. Jordan and Saudi Arabia have the most to lose imo.

Jordan JUST managed to gain some foothold on the global stage in the last 20 years and will not lose it all to a war on its doorstep that it has nothing to do with.

Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia has way too much bad blood with Iran, culturally and religiously. But also, its most crucial maritime trading routes across the Hormuz Strait, the Al Mandeb Strait and the Suez Canal, are all directly under Iranian threat right now - via Yemeni and Lebanese proxies. If Iran was able to sever even ONE of those the SA economy would take a massive hit.
 
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RaspberrySwirl said:
So it turns out that several Arab states helped defending Israel against Iran’s missile attack; Jordan by actively shooting down Iranian missiles, Saudi, UAE and other Gulf states by sharing intel and opening their airspace to American/allied warplanes. Saudi arabia by also allegedly intercepting missiles shot by the Houthi rebels in Yemen.

A rather remarkable but expected turn of events; it just goes to show that this is much bigger than the Palestinian issue (which doesn’t excuse Israel’s actions) and that half of the countries in that region would rather side with Israel than with Iran.
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I think they’re all just playing the role they’re supposed to play. Iran knew they would all be shot down. They even spoilered their own attack. It was a warning sign as they had to be seen to be doing something. The Western-allied states equally had to be seen to be opposing any Iranian ‘aggression’ and it’s an easy win for them to display loyalty to the US (not Israel). Ultimately they just don’t want tensions rising in their own backyard because they’ll be dragged into it whether they want to or not. KSA in particular.

Apart from the IDF who continue to be destructive and counterproductive, they’re all just displaying feathers. Let’s hope that’s all it is.
 
The players in the periphery are going to be extremely useful right now. Past investments into Egypt, Djibouti, and even Pakistan, are going to pay off very nicely for any party trying to leverage their interests in this conflict.
 
Funky said:
I think they’re all just playing the role they’re supposed to play. Iran knew they would all be shot down. They even spoilered their own attack. It was a warning sign as they had to be seen to be doing something. The Western-allied states equally had to be seen to be opposing any Iranian ‘aggression’ and it’s an easy win for them to display loyalty to the US (not Israel). Ultimately they just don’t want tensions rising in their own backyard because they’ll be dragged into it whether they want to or not. KSA in particular.

Apart from the IDF who continue to be destructive and counterproductive, they’re all just displaying feathers. Let’s hope that’s all it is.
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True, but it’s nevertheless a dramatic shift from the Arabs vs Israel narrative that the region is used to.
 
Meanwhile, I feel bad for countries like Oman who have just been minding their own business and thriving just fine.
 
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