Growth of the far right (1 Viewer)

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GNL said:
No actual ramifications for saying "Hitler was a nice guy who just wanted a pure nation" is pretty unhinged, especially since UFC is so popular with the thicko community.
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I mean he got knocked the fuck out
 
Jark said:
there just isn't any education. about why "masculinity" needs to be rethought, about why equality goes way beyond surface level feminism or equal pay, about why don't need to be nasty or without feeling/empathy to be seen as strong, why it matters to change things. we still see male heads of state as strong if they go to war. how do we uncouple violence from this outdated idea of strength?

nothing is happening in the classroom, and any attempts to broach such a vast subject are branded woke and vilified. but at the same time porn is raising generations of young men to think women exist as sex dolls, and the Andrew Tates of the world have a huge platform to "fight back" against any attempt at redefining masculinity.

as with many problems facing society an HONEST CONVERSATION and appraisal about the state of things would be a great place to start - but that's never been less possible than today.
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I disagree, much of what's challenging about being a modern man is being addressed, there is a reason that suicide is the leading cause of male deaths and its because men have been left behind.

Unfortunately its easier to focus on the negative behaviour of these figures filling the gaps rather than having a conversation about what a more balanced future looks like for everyone, but there is plenty of education especially in classrooms and I think a lot of parents of boys on the cusp of manhood, like myself, are acutely aware that they need to help their children navigate this future.
 
if that is the case though (that education is in place to address what young men are going through) - why are today's young male (gen z) demographic more right wing than the generations before them and consistently voting for populists who themselves embrace toxic masculinity?

dub.uu.nl

Highly educated young men shift to the right

A shift to the right is expected to happen in the elections to the European Parliament, which will happen this week, on June 6th. Should we prepare for a nationalist, radical right-wing supremacy in Europe? To what extent are young people responsible for this shift? Professor Marcel Lubbers...
dub.uu.nl dub.uu.nl

www.politico.eu

It’s not just boomers, young people are voting far right too

Ahead of the European election, striking data shows where Gen Z and millennials’ allegiances lie.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
Jark said:
if that is the case though (that education is in place to address what young men are going through) - why are today's young male (gen z) demographic more right wing than the generations before them and consistently voting for populists who themselves embrace toxic masculinity?

dub.uu.nl

Highly educated young men shift to the right

A shift to the right is expected to happen in the elections to the European Parliament, which will happen this week, on June 6th. Should we prepare for a nationalist, radical right-wing supremacy in Europe? To what extent are young people responsible for this shift? Professor Marcel Lubbers...
dub.uu.nl dub.uu.nl

www.politico.eu

It’s not just boomers, young people are voting far right too

Ahead of the European election, striking data shows where Gen Z and millennials’ allegiances lie.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
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Is the answer to this not just Twitch/YouTube/Tik Tok etc? I'm not sure how much schools can do to unpick that.
 
I don't know what people expect out of the education system. Yes, there are vital academic topics that unpack the effects of gender-oppressive societies in great detail, but a fair and just society will ALWAYS start on the individual face-to-face level. Kindness and compassion are not qualities that you can simply mass produce by institutionalizing children. It HAS to start from parents and the immediate community because they have the child during their most impressionable years when their brains are most receptive and 'malleable'. Those first 1000 days of a child's life set the tone for their behaviors, what they perceive as 'normal', and the language they use to interact with other people.

The "education system" as we know it has only existed for 300-400 years. Society does not need, and has never needed, anything more than good parenting to produce respectful, humble, and healthy children. Teachers can absolutely play an significant role in a child's development, but the best it can hope to achieve is supplement and reinforce the behaviors they are already learning from home. What public education CAN'T do is somehow "correct" antisocial or unhealthy behaviors. I think it can help guide the child, but ultimately teachers and social workers don't have the familial bond OR the working capacity to be fully responsible for it.
 
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It's surely got to be a combined societal effort. I don't think you can reasonably point to any one place (be they families, schools, TikTok moderators) and expect them to solve the issue in isolation.

Schools obviously MUST play a part given it's the obvious place you have the captive audience. But we're not dealing with mature or sophisticated minds here, and it's naive to think every 12 year old boy is going to stop listening to fun flashy Andrew Tate with a sports car or Elon Musk playing King of the Universe vs stern-faced and browbeaten Mrs Johnson who dishes out homework and detentions.
 
KC 🦋 said:
I don't know what people expect out of the education system. Yes, there are vital academic topics that unpack the effects of gender-oppressive societies in great detail, but a fair and just society will ALWAYS start on the individual face-to-face level. Kindness and compassion are not qualities that you can simply mass produce by institutionalizing children. It HAS to start from parents and the immediate community because they have the child during their most impressionable years when their brains are most receptive and 'malleable'. Those first 1000 days of a child's life set the tone for their behaviors, what they perceive as 'normal', and the language they use to interact with other people.

The "education system" as we know it has only existed for 300-400 years. Society does not need, and has never needed, anything more than good parenting to produce respectful, humble, and healthy children. Teachers can absolutely play an significant role in a child's development, but the best it can hope to achieve is supplement and reinforce the behaviors they are already learning from home. What public education CAN'T do is somehow "correct" antisocial or unhealthy behaviors. I think it can help guide the child, but ultimately teachers and social workers don't have the familial bond OR the working capacity to be fully responsible for it.
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I mean, sure, but the state has very limited ability to influence how a child is parented, but a lot of influence over how a child is taught. To just say a good parent is all you need abandons those with shit parents, or no parents at all
 
ZenGiraffe said:
I mean, sure, but the state has very limited ability to influence how a child is parented, but a lot of influence over how a child is taught. To just say a good parent is all you need abandons those with shit parents, or no parents at all
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Then it's people's responsibility to call it out for what it is. We don't have an "education crisis", we have a parenting crisis. ONCE a child receives an upbringing that promotes the right qualities, THEN schooling can start to fortify their development. Until society grows the balls to talk about the failure of parenting, y'all can continue to enjoy boys who objectify girls and girls who pass their traumas onto their children. Since when have people needed the "state" to voice their disapproval with society? If we could draw the courage to start openly talking about sexuality and race, then we absolutely have the courage to do the same thing with parenting.
 
KC 🦋 said:
Since when have people needed the "state" to voice their disapproval with society?
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I think we have slightly different ideas of what the state and society are, because I wouldn't really make such a distinction.

Society broadly seems to agree that there is a problem facing young men in particular, but the tool that society actually has is the state, through for example the way it educates children or the way it regulates social media.

How would you propose changes to parenting happen?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
through for example the way it educates children or the way it regulates social media.
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Both of these "tools" are futile if the quality of the parenting is poor. The best tool, and ONLY tool, society will ever need to produce good young men is good parenting, precisely because it's the primary influence on the child's brain development in the first 3-5 years. Everything else is secondary. An advantage, but secondary.

ZenGiraffe said:
How would you propose changes to parenting happen?
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The same way we initiate change in any other facet of society. We start by not being scared to talk about it. Everybody is terrified of sounding "judgemental" because parenting is a 'private matter' and 'you can't tell someone how to raise their child'. And I fully understand that it's much easier said than done. But we've reached a breaking point where we have to stop skirting around the issue and call out parents when their children are acting like shit stains and start dedicating resources to helping parents do a better job, instead of pouring it all into just the "education system" because that absolutely cannot fix the problem on its own. Not even close.
 
The results of the German election are extremely cursed.

Is East Germany OKAY?

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The silver lining is that the AFD are at the lower end of what was projected, and the Greens and the Left slightly overperformed.

Still scary though.
 
It's 20% of the vote. It's not good news, but it's hardly worth the coverage it's getting either.

I see the new German Chancellor is going full anti-Trump, which is hilarious.
 
GIven that we are sat georgraphically and policitally in between the EU and the USA, it's good that we have a really strong and principled Prime Minister with clear polic...oh. Oh shit.
 
octophone said:
GIven that we are sat georgraphically and policitally in between the EU and the USA, it's good that we have a really strong and principled Prime Minister with clear polic...oh. Oh shit.
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It’s fine, Nigel Farage will be prime minister in 2029.
 
AGinAg (38) said:
Don't rule it out. Just a couple of political manoeuvres and he'll be there.

Although I'd like to think more people would be sensible enough to vote tactically to stop him.
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The Trump/Russia stuff is already hurting him - he has a vote ceiling as it is and fellating Putin and the orange rapist every chance he gets has lowered that considerably.
 
AGinAg (38) said:
Don't rule it out. Just a couple of political manoeuvres and he'll be there.

Although I'd like to think more people would be sensible enough to vote tactically to stop him.
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I agree but I am a bit optimistic that as a country we chose to go left of centre at this moment in time. Maybe I have more faith in the British public but I think timing has worked well in our favour as a nation in terms of what's unfolding. You can never really predict these things and I accept that; but I do think the Farage bubble has burst in this country...
 
I think we're at risk of underestimating the extent to which people leant Labour their vote because the Tories had to go. The opinion polls had them in the mid-high 40s which slowly ebbed as the campaign went on and, on the night, they polled a little over a third of the vote. From that starting point and early predicitions of historic results and Tory wipeouts, that was pretty shit. Scotland is over them already, as the opinion polls will show you. A crap Labour government will leave it wide open for a far right Tory/Reform coalition and that's what I see happening at the moment.
 
The latest polling has Lab+LD+Green on 48% and Con-Ref on 47% (Reform lead the Tories)

Obviously I'm aware it's 4.5 years until the next election and our electoral system is rarely reflective of percentages. But it's the same electoral system that could see a Farage led Tory party (if and when Badenoch quits) to a victory as small (percentage wise) as Labour's most recent one. Even a right wing coalition could put Farage on the next step to power (presuming Reform electoral success continues).

It could all go any way, now we've moved into a multi party system. I don't think for a second that that the Farage bubble has burst. The far-right is only now getting a strangehold over Europe, it will take a seismic event to crush it (hi, war with Russia!)

All that said I think the UK remains a centre-right country politically and wouldn't permit a Farage led government.
 
I'm not discounting the Musk / Trump era massively helping Farage into power

We still have four years of online misinformation and right-wing subterfuge to get through. And it's been proven time and time again are a LOT of unquestioning and dumb people in the UK.

Farage may have personally fallen out of favour with Musk, but he absolutely will still benefit from the almost inevitable right wing swing.
 
Shoat said:
Farage may have personally fallen out of favour with Musk, but he absolutely will still benefit from the almost inevitable right wing swing.
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Oh these right wing sorts can do an absolute about turn in 30 seconds or less if it fits their needs. I'm sure Farage still has plans to get that 100m.
 
octophone said:
I think we're at risk of underestimating the extent to which people leant Labour their vote because the Tories had to go. The opinion polls had them in the mid-high 40s which slowly ebbed as the campaign went on and, on the night, they polled a little over a third of the vote. From that starting point and early predicitions of historic results and Tory wipeouts, that was pretty shit. Scotland is over them already, as the opinion polls will show you. A crap Labour government will leave it wide open for a far right Tory/Reform coalition and that's what I see happening at the moment.
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Yeah, I think if the Tories and Reform agreed to stand down in one another's target seats like Reform did in the election before this one we're all DOOMED. It would probably require a bit of humility on the part of the Tories and accepting that they actually need to stand down their own candidates TOO this time, so hopefully the egos are too big to allow it to happen.
 
AGinAg (38) said:
Oh these right wing sorts can do an absolute about turn in 30 seconds or less if it fits their needs. I'm sure Farage still has plans to get that 100m.
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Absolutely. It's always been the one thing the right wing have always beaten the left on: their "pragmatism" and willingness to set aside smaller gripes to achieve the "right" result
 
Depressing to see the far right getting any kind of success in Germany. If even they've forgotten, we're all so screwed

And yeah as for here, I wish we had a decent Labour government. Starmer just being a universally hated "worst of both worlds" doesn't bode well - we can only hope it's the "get the unpopular stuff done early and then make everyone happy closer to the next election" kind of deal.
 
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