funky's journey through the 90s (again, again)

[funky]

Dina Carroll's first few single releases might have missed the top 10 but they were all top class & "This Time" was no exception. It was my favourite Dina song for yonks & although it should have been a bigger hit, it did, at least, keep sales of the album ticking over nicely before she really got going later in 1993. It also features much loved Eternal sisters Fester & Vern on backing vocals, FACT FANS.

I agree it’s a wonderful singles run, it’s just interesting that they gave her so many chances to have a proper smash, and eventually it worked… but the way they also clearly didn’t think it would be DBAS that would do it for her given they chose FIVE other songs before it maybe her base grew gradually with each release and DBAS just hit at the right time. Either way, whether on purpose or by accident, it worked. Well until the second album of course…

I also didn’t know the Eternal sisters appeared on the song. They must have been separately recording as a group at this point because the debut single is about to drop… did they do backing vocals for other acts prior to the band?

 

[POP!]

It’s wild to me how quickly the late 80s pop stars like Debbie and Tiffany were just totally discarded by the culture. These days if you have success on their level you can hang around as a celebrity for ages after. I struggle to think of many modern equivalents. Maybe someone like Iggy Azelea?

Anyway, the Masters at Work remix of Losin’ Myself is where it’s at:

Yeah although Debbie had a bit of a softer drop than Tiffany. Both of their first two albums went at least platinum in the States, but Hold An Old Friend’s Hand (still an awful title for a 17 year old’s sophomore pop album) lacked a #1 hit. Tiffany’s third album didn’t chart at all on the single or album charts, which was a disaster. Debbie’s Anything is Possible at least went Gold but she never had a hit after that.

Losin Myself is great. @funky check out the remix VoR posted, it’s better than the original imo.

 

[funky]

It is! I’ve already playlisted it! I do like the original as well though. It sounds nothing like her 80s work.

 

[Sardonicus]

I agree it’s a wonderful singles run, it’s just interesting that they gave her so many chances to have a proper smash, and eventually it worked… but the way they also clearly didn’t think it would be DBAS that would do it for her given they chose FIVE other songs before it maybe her base grew gradually with each release and DBAS just hit at the right time. Either way, whether on purpose or by accident, it worked. Well until the second album of course…

I also didn’t know the Eternal sisters appeared on the song. They must have been separately recording as a group at this point because the debut single is about to drop… did they do backing vocals for other acts prior to the band?

Eternal & Dina were both managed by 1st Avenue at the time, so I think that's why the SISTERS GRIMM made a GOD FEARING appearance. They also supported Dina on her UK tour in late 1993.

 

[funky]

I think I’m going to have to come full force with disclaimers in the coming months because unfortunately the debut Eternal album is an absolutely JOY.

 

[POP!]

Bad Girl felt like an odd choice for single #3, though I love it, considering the backlash. Rain was waiting in the wings and clearly much more conservative of a choice, and also a great song. Skipping ahead a bit, but it eventually spent the more weeks on the chart (20) than Erotica (18) and Deeper and Deeper (17), and of course Bad Girl, despite missing the top ten.

 

[POP!]

I love Hat 2 the Back too. All the singles from the debut album were great.

 

[Sardonicus]

I think I’m going to have to come full force with disclaimers in the coming months because unfortunately the debut Eternal album is an absolutely JOY.

Oh I love it too. I listened to it repeatedly as a child. I love the album tracks as much as the singles. Easther has an incredible voice, really one of the strongest in British soul music over the decades (the intro to "Stay" alone is astonishingly good). It's just unfortunate that they were both such utterly repugnant personalities from the word go

 

[funky]

I need @alla back to talk me through the Lenny Kravitz single release! I wonder how it did on airplay.

 

[POP!]

Aside from AYGGMW, Again was also close to hitting #1 peaking at #4, without a commercial single release when it still made a difference. I imagine that could’ve also gone #1.

 

[VoR]

Nothing wrong with appreciating Always & Forever. Clearly Louise was the creative driving force behind the group at that time.

 

[funky]

“Again” is a wild anomoly for Lenny. That song did nothing in Europe. And I think it co-incided with a compilation album, so I didn’t even know what it was until years later, I think from playing music quizzes on sporcle and it kept popping up as a big single of the 00s…

 

[Sardonicus]

Nothing wrong with appreciating Always & Forever. Clearly Louise was the creative driving force behind the group at that time.

And clearly had Vernie holding her at knifepoint writing THANKS & PRAISE BE JESUS in the album acknowledgements

 

[VoR]

“Again” is a wild anomoly for Lenny. That song did nothing in Europe. And I think it co-incided with a compilation album, so I didn’t even know what it was until years later, I think from playing music quizzes on sporcle and it kept popping up as a big single of the 00s…

I remember it being on THE BOX a lot at the time, but I guess he never promoted it here.

 

[old spice]

• I said it somewhere up-thread but 'Are You Gonna Go My Way' is the whole damn blast! I don't think it'd have reached #1 even with a physical release given the songs that were reaching the summit around this time, but it deserves to be seen as Kravitz's biggest legit hit imo. I hate these stupid airplay-only singles, although I suppose the streaming age has somewhat ironically provided a corrective in that regard.
  
  
• I must have missed the arrival of R.E.M.'s Automatic era? I'm repeating myself again, but Out of Time was way way beneath them imo, and this follow-up record is a marvel of a course-correct: expanding the glimpses of brooding chamber-pop they'd been toying with into a whole album of baroque, funereal gems. 'Man on the Moon' may be the most straightforwardly poppy thing on there - and that's no criticism as I think they'd mastered propulsive, infectious hooks by this point - but there's an air of undeniable melancholy given the subject. I love that we're exploring a time when R.E.M.'s 80s work is bearing relevant fruit (Nirvana! Radiohead!) and they're off doing something completely unlike all that surround them and were inspired by them. 'Are we losing touch?' they sing - not in the slightest.
  
  
• I know that Neil Young is one of the greats, and he should really be right up my alley. But I have NEVER managed to get on board with that ghastly, shrill voice of his. See also: his female counterpart Joni Mitchell, but at least she has Blue which is undeniable. I've dabbled in the Young oeuvre a number of times per others' requests and have yet to come out unscathed. Apologies for the negativity. The voice really is perhaps the most integral part of why I do or don't connect to a song. It doesn't have to be technically perfect by any means, but there are some that I just don't get at all.
  
  
• Speaking of vocals, neither of the Chaka Khan covers in the charts atm can measure up to her initial takes. Mary J. isn't anywhere near as good a singer, but What's the 411? is a great debut and there's much that's far superior to the merely-serviceable 'Sweet Thing' on it imo. Whitney by contrast is the GOAT in that particular field, but while her reading of 'I'm Every Woman' hits all the right buttons - house-lite production that's relevant to the times, objectively tremendous vocal performance, rightly deferential tribute to the OG - it just doesn't have that unvarnished, gritty uplift that Ms. Chaka brings to the table. Not a song that I ever listen to - I am decidedly not every woman, alas - but respect where it's due, that's one of the few notable covers where I think Whitney failed to surpass the original. I'll save 'I Have Nothing' thoughts for next issue as I talk about this woman too much for my liking on here (but then again, 1993 was very much her world and all others were just living in it).
  
  

• And finally here's one for @old spice - A lovely rare gem from Black Moon, not to be confused with Black Sheep. Despite being an independent rap group, they scraped the Top 100 by peaking at #86:
  
  

  
  
  You know my inclinations well, brother funky. Thank you for sharing and tagging, this is getting playlisted as we speak!

 

[Sardonicus]

• I know that Neil Young is one of the greats, and he should really be right up my alley. But I have NEVER managed to get on board with that ghastly, shrill voice of his.

I've always been the same with Neil Young. On paper, he's an artist I should really like, but his voice goes THROUGH ME & ruins any appeal the songs might have had.

 

[Sheena]

I don’t really understand how I don’t remember that Take That single; I don’t even recall the title itself being part of their singles run. Granted I’m not their biggest fan and they hadn’t quite crossed over to mass market yet but I was 14 at the time, so they would have been everywhere in the media I was consuming, and it was a big hit! I remember all the other early singles, which ironically I didn’t like. I grew to like “Love Don’t Live Here Anymore” over time. But this one completely passed me by. I wonder if I was having a break from new pop music at the start of the year for SOME REASON…

I had zero interest in Take That, but Why Can't I Wake Up With You was the point that changed- it's fantastic. The singles after that were all varying shades of good to great, though I never went as far as buying anything until the Greatest Hits.

 

[VoR]

I would non-ironically recommend the quite lovely Wilson Phillips recording of Neil Young's Old Man. Carnie Wilson obviously had a lot to draw from in terms of the subject matter of fucked up paternal relationships, and she has a much less abrasive voice.



As for Joni, have you tried any of her later work @old spice? By the late 1970s, the shrill element of her voice was pretty much gone thanks to her infamous chain-smoking.

If you can't get on board with Hejira, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Sheena]

Over in the UK, Saint Etienne release "You're In A Bad Way" the second single from second album So Tough, outperforming "Avenue" to peak at #12, one of their most successful ever singles. Don't recall this track but I like it! Great video, but why does Dannii Minogue spring to mind? Same director?

Interestingly, that was the video made for the US market. The UK version was a typical low budget affair...



I always found it bizarre that Warner spent so much money (relatively) on a Saint Etienne video remake for a single that was NEVER going to take off over there.

 

[Sheena]

"This Time" was a 4th attempt at giving Dina Carroll a smash hit, and it was another relative failure, with this peaking at #23. Amazingly they would of course persist with this album, and they would, again amazingly, get it right...

It was an odd chart trajectory, but she was one of those classic acts who, at first, made their name on the album charts. Her first few singles failed to ignite, but the album sold really well, so rather than stopping with diminishing returns, they kept going with the singles. From memory, the album came out alongside this single, but the album did the business. They kept going with remixes of Express and then, of course, Don't Be A Stranger, which was the song that really took off. There was a reissue to include the christmas single, The Perfect Year, and by that time it had pushed the album well over a million. It was a resounding success, despite the singles.

 

[Sheena]

I agree it’s a wonderful singles run, it’s just interesting that they gave her so many chances to have a proper smash, and eventually it worked… but the way they also clearly didn’t think it would be DBAS that would do it for her given they chose FIVE other songs before it maybe her base grew gradually with each release and DBAS just hit at the right time. Either way, whether on purpose or by accident, it worked. Well until the second album of course…

I also didn’t know the Eternal sisters appeared on the song. They must have been separately recording as a group at this point because the debut single is about to drop… did they do backing vocals for other acts prior to the band?

I think she released four singles prior to the album, so they may have recorded Don't Be A Stranger fairly late in the day, rather than purposely holding it back or choosing other songs as priorities. Having said that, the original album version isn't a SHADOW of what the remixed single version was, so maybe they didn't really know until they were desperate for another single.

Of course, worth mentioning here as well, is the support she got from the club/ dance world at the time- each single had copious remixes and more often than not, a brand new, entirely club-aimed track on the bside. Some of them (Born To Be Your Lover, Here etc.) were considered club classics.

I was at that tour where Eternal supported Dina, that @Sardonicus mentions too. I saw her a few times live back in the day.

 

[Sheena]

If we're ever looking for the point when Madonna's original imperial era ended, one arguement could be the release of "Bad Girl" in 1993. It's unfair on the actual song, which is a really lovely ballad, but was it the right choice when the world was debating over her "bad girl" image? (Madonna did love to push the subtle and sometimes-not-so-subtle irony button with the media which sometimes worked, sometimes didn't). I'm also unsure whether "Bad Girl" is strong enough to be a single? You can understand them going for a ballad, after 2 big dance singles (which both went Top 10) and she had shown her ability to perform well with ballads throughout her career, something which would only grow stronger into the decade. Maybe the media furore had just become too much at this point. Whatever the reason, Bad Girl only managed #36, which was a huge drop off from expectations from anything Madonna. She did hit #10 in the UK, but sales were way down on her other singles. Ironically, it would be another ballad from the album and then another ballad from a soundtrack which would turn things around for her and keep things from falling off a cliff. In fact she never really did fall completely - and we wouldn't actually wait too long for the next imperial era to begin. It felt like a lifetime as a fan in the mid 90s, but in the grand scheme of things it was a blip compared to present day...

I feel like it was debated elsewhere recently, but Bad Girl suffered from a few things- mainly, yes, the media had had enough of her and it was OVERWHELMINGLY negative around this time from the over-exposure and the Sex/ Erotica backlash and, perhaps more arguably, what was a soft, reflective ballad was overshadowed by what was seen as yet another "controversial" video in which, of course, she basically shags around and pays for it by being murdered. It was edited for MTV, but I don't remember much airplay outside of there, so, despite being a lovely ballad-y song, it wasn't as "safe" as Rain was, and suffered appropriately.

I still think without Sex and with Deeper and Deeper as the lead single, things would have been very different during that era.

 

[Sheena]

I always thought Debbie would do well in the songwriting & production background at least when she was able to write, arrange & produce a US number 1 at age 16, yet she's a really odd case in that all her biggest success came in her teens & I can't recall her even penning a hit for anyone else later.

I've often thought this, but she seems to be fairly happy on the schlock acting and retro concert circuits.

Considering she wrote and produced most of her stuff, those early hits must keep her in a fair bit of cash...

 

[Sardonicus]

I think she released four singles prior to the album, so they may have recorded Don't Be A Stranger fairly late in the day, rather than purposely holding it back or choosing other songs as priorities. Having said that, the original album version isn't a SHADOW of what the remixed single version was, so maybe they didn't really know until they were desperate for another single.

Of course, worth mentioning here as well, is the support she got from the club/ dance world at the time- each single had copious remixes and more often than not, a brand new, entirely club-aimed track on the bside. Some of them (Born To Be Your Lover, Here etc.) were considered club classics.

I was at that tour where Eternal supported Dina, that @Sardonicus mentions too. I saw her a few times live back in the day.

I remember I wanted to go see the Dina/Eternal tour but my mum wouldn't take me - I was only 10.

Agree that the album version of DBAS is a much lesser version, but it still sounded like a hit even then (I think my uncle bought me the album after "Express" hit) - not a patch on the MAJESTIC singles mix though - a deserved smash & again it's a pity Dina has disappeared entirely - a fantastic live voice & quite underrated.

And now you've mentioned the dance mixes I now must play the Chicago MVP AllStars mix of "Mind Body & Soul" - thanks Shee!

 

[Sheena]

I think I’m going to have to come full force with disclaimers in the coming months because unfortunately the debut Eternal album is an absolutely JOY.

The first Eternal album is great...and even better if you substitute the album versions with the single remixes. Power of a Woman is also really good, though Before the Rain (which held their biggest hits and was their "imperial phase" to some extent) is actually mired down by some really dreary album tracks- and which is why they abandoned it after having a #1 from what was (for all intents and purposes) only the second single.

Their singles were always fantastic until they went down to the duo of the SISTERS GRIMM, though.

 

[Sheena]

I remember I wanted to go see the Dina/Eternal tour but my mum wouldn't take me - I was only 10.

Agree that the album version of DBAS is a much lesser version, but it still sounded like a hit even then (I think my uncle bought me the album after "Express" hit) - not a patch on the MAJESTIC singles mix though - a deserved smash & again it's a pity Dina has disappeared entirely - a fantastic live voice & quite underrated.

And now you've mentioned the dance mixes I now must play the Chicago MVP AllStars mix of "Mind Body & Soul" - thanks Shee!

Mind Body and Soul was great...I also love Falling, as well as the two I've mentioned above.

 

[Suedehead]

The first Eternal album is great...and even better if you substitute the album versions with the single remixes. Power of a Woman is also really good, though Before the Rain (which held their biggest hits and was their "imperial phase" to some extent) is actually mired down by some really dreary album tracks- and which is why they abandoned it after having a #1 from what was (for all intents and purposes) only the second single.

Their singles were always fantastic until they went down to the duo of the SISTERS GRIMM, though.

Single mixes were so superior
I bought ALWAYS & FOREVER off the back of 'Just A Step From Heaven' and 13 year old SUEDE was appalled at the slushy LP version intro!

 

[Suedehead]

Child goes to the store
For a loaf of bread
Don't you love me
Don't you love me no more

WHY does GRANNY have to WALK the STREETS!!!!




Let's face it "Don't You Love Me" is a lyrical masterpiece.

Especially when you couple it with the TOTP choreo

 

[Sheena]

Single mixes were so superior
I bought ALWAYS & FOREVER off the back of 'Just A Step From Heaven' and 13 year old SUEDE was appalled at the slushy LP version intro!

The Just a Step From Heaven single mix is their crowning glory, for me. It's transcendent. See also the heavily remixed (and with additional vocals) Oh Baby I... and Crazy.

Eternal were another group who benefitted from top notch dance mixes and bsides too. Sweet Funky Thing being their crowning glory.

 

[Sheena]

Child goes to the store
For a loaf of bread
Don't you love me
Don't you love me no more

WHY does GRANNY have to WALK the STREETS!!!!




Let's face it "Don't You Love Me" is a lyrical masterpiece.

Especially when you couple it with the TOTP choreo

Don't You Love Me is actually fantastic but, yes, slightly saddled by stupid lyrics. I remember it coming out, when I was working in the Co-Op as a student. It was on the radio ENDLESSLY. It topped the airplay chart, before I Wanna Be The Only One became one of the most played songs EVER on UK radio. They were cross-format radio GOLD at that point.

 

[Sheena]

Also...

COULD IT BE MAGIC?
COULD IT BE A FANTASY?

 

[BoysForSeles]

Yes, if one group is still crying out for deluxe edition reissues packed with b sides and remixes its Eternal. Those first 3 albums have more than enough material for a fresh feeling double album. How palatable that would be to buy these days is another matter.

 

[Sheena]

Yes, if one group is still crying out for deluxe edition reissues packed with b sides and remixes its Eternal. Those first 3 albums have more than enough material for a fresh feeling double album. How palatable that would be to buy these days is another matter.

This is ABSOLUTELY my problem. Thankfully I already had the Always and Forever vinyl before the recent reissue. I picked up a 12" of Power of a Woman in Japan recently and only allowed myself it because it was second hand.

 

[funky]

God this is why I love doing this thread! So much wonderful feedback and insights there… I love this era so much but my head was so deep into house and club mixtapes that I missed an awful lot of what was happening in pop. I shall reply properly forthwith, but just to say I need to get onto these Dina Carroll bsides immediately! @Sheena do you have a LIST?

 

[Sheena]

God this is why I love doing this thread! So much wonderful feedback and insights there… I love this era so much but my head was so deep into house and club mixtapes that I missed an awful lot of what was happening in pop. I shall reply properly forthwith, but just to say I need to get onto these Dina Carroll bsides immediately! @Sheena do you have a LIST?

Try:

Here
Born To Be Your Lover
Mind, Body, Soul
Living For The Weekend
Falling

and the remixes of the singles themselves...

 

[VoR]

I just had a listen to the original version of Stay by US RnB singer Glenn Jones. She may be evil, but Easther undeniably elevated it massively with those vox. The OG can't help but feel a bit plodding by comparison.

 

[funky]

• I know that Neil Young is one of the greats, and he should really be right up my alley. But I have NEVER managed to get on board with that ghastly, shrill voice of his. See also: his female counterpart Joni Mitchell, but at least she has Blue which is undeniable. I've dabbled in the Young oeuvre a number of times per others' requests and have yet to come out unscathed. Apologies for the negativity. The voice really is perhaps the most integral part of why I do or don't connect to a song. It doesn't have to be technically perfect by any means, but there are some that I just don't get at all.

Completely agree. Not sure if you feel the same way but I find Bob Dylan exactly the same. Tom Petty has a similar voice but much less shrill and also (IMO) better and more accessible songs, so he gets a pass. Not a baritone between any of them, mind. Joni Mitchell on the other hand I love, although I wouldn't call myself that familiar with most of her work and I really keep meaning to explore her more. One day, etc.

• Speaking of vocals, neither of the Chaka Khan covers in the charts atm can measure up to her initial takes. Mary J. isn't anywhere near as good a singer, but What's the 411? is a great debut and there's much that's far superior to the merely-serviceable 'Sweet Thing' on it imo. Whitney by contrast is the GOAT in that particular field, but while her reading of 'I'm Every Woman' hits all the right buttons - house-lite production that's relevant to the times, objectively tremendous vocal performance, rightly deferential tribute to the OG - it just doesn't have that unvarnished, gritty uplift that Ms. Chaka brings to the table. Not a song that I ever listen to - I am decidedly not every woman, alas - but respect where it's due, that's one of the few notable covers where I think Whitney failed to surpass the original. I'll save 'I Have Nothing' thoughts for next issue as I talk about this woman too much for my liking on here (but then again, 1993 was very much her world and all others were just living in it).

I agree ENTIRELY!

• 
  
  You know my inclinations well, brother funky. Thank you for sharing and tagging, this is getting playlisted as we speak!

There's so much hip-hop about to land, it really exploded big time in 1993. Might have to siphon off into another thread in case the gays get antsy

 

[funky]

It was an odd chart trajectory, but she was one of those classic acts who, at first, made their name on the album charts. Her first few singles failed to ignite, but the album sold really well, so rather than stopping with diminishing returns, they kept going with the singles. From memory, the album came out alongside this single, but the album did the business. They kept going with remixes of Express and then, of course, Don't Be A Stranger, which was the song that really took off. There was a reissue to include the christmas single, The Perfect Year, and by that time it had pushed the album well over a million. It was a resounding success, despite the singles.

OK so this was interesting and actually makes sense. I hadn't considered that the album was actually doing well and that's why they kept putting out singles. I also don't know/remember the album version of DBAS being different from the single version - I'll have to make sure I check that out when it comes up soon. I also should look into the remixes a bit more.

 

[funky]

The Just a Step From Heaven single mix is their crowning glory, for me. It's transcendent. See also the heavily remixed (and with additional vocals) Oh Baby I... and Crazy.

Eternal were another group who benefitted from top notch dance mixes and bsides too. Sweet Funky Thing being their crowning glory.

Naturally I put on the album recently thanks to me being very much in a 1993 zone at the moment, and that took me to the single remixes, and A) I didn't realise at the time how different they were and B) Good Golly the single remix of Just A Step From Heaven really is majestic. I definitely underrated that at the time. However...

Also...

COULD IT BE MAGIC?
COULD IT BE A FANTASY?

this is fucking sensational. Jumping the gun now because album 2 is a bit down the line, but this remains my favourite Eternal song by a country mile. What a glow up. Reminds me a bit of the SWV remix I posted on the previous page, and actually, what with Eternal, SWV, Mary J Blige and others all making appearances, I don't think I appreciated the power and impact of the 90s JAZZED UP RADIO MIX until now...

 

[funky]

Try:

Here
Born To Be Your Lover
Mind, Body, Soul
Living For The Weekend
Falling

and the remixes of the singles themselves...

Here - Both The West End mix and The Nigel Lowis mixes are gorgeous. The latter even feels like it would make a great radio single in edit form (it's 7m long on Spotify)

Born To Be Your Lover - This one does feels less like a single than the above but still very much strong enough to be an album track (again the Nigel Lowis version - the Platinum mix is OK). She really could have just put out on album of bangers, the wealth of choice on offer.

Mind Body & Soul appears to be on the Only Human album? I have no recollection of it either way - I didn't have that album. This is OK, passable.

Livin' For The Weekend - also on Only Human, this does sound familiar, I think I prefer this version albeit a bit thinner but the Canny remix doesn't work for me. The Fire Island mix is fun. Space Brothers mix is very poppers oclock! This also sounds like very early trance... which would make sense, as that's where the Space Brothers would later become known for in the late 90s.

Falling - I prefer the album version of this, but the Phil Kelsey mix is good too.


I'll have to try and remember to cover the remixes when her next singles come up. But honestly, Express, Ain't No Man and Special Kind Of Love are untouchable in their album originals for me...