Separating the Art from the Artist

RJN

RJN

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Can you do it??

I watched Rosemary’s Baby a few days ago, and it was excellent, but it did make me feel a little weird about watching a Roman Polanski movie. Not weird enough to not watch it though.

I also still listen to Kanye West and Morgan Wallen
 
I do in some cases. I still watch my Roseanne DVDs even though she's a vile human being. I just love the show too much.

Rosemary's Baby is also one of my favourite movies and I will watch it again (I wouldn't buy it in a physical format tough).
I even rewatched Jeepers Creepers on telly a while back, but yeah, that one and part 2 really do feel weird when you know about the director's past.
 
Debbie Jellinsky said:
Rosemary's Baby is also one of my favourite movies and I will watch it again (I wouldn't buy it in a physical format tough).
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The Jeepers Creepers guy seems like a real (jeepers) creep
 
Oh I have a special theory on this. Which is as follows - in general, people's ability to seperate or ignore the behaviour of the artist is fully related to how much they are prepared to live without their art. So, to use an obvious example, the world seems to have made its mind up on Michael Jackson - and they are not prepared to sack off listening to Billie Jean or Can You Feel it et cet, so they are just LA LA LA fingers in the ears about him. In the same way, most people are coping without having to crack out Another Rock n Roll Christmas by Gary Glitter, so he is evil and can burn and won't be getting a loving biopic made about him any time soon. So - art you cannot / will not give up - separation. Shit art - burn them. it's not a pure rule - and it may depend on the scale of the crime. I can and will listen to The Smiths, but I tend to find myself thinking about what a turnip that man is now, every single time that I do - so I think in some cases the person sort of bleeds into their art and can make you feel a bit icky.
 
I really think it's case by case. I won't listen to Kanye or Nicki Minaj* anymore. a shame as both have made albums that are classics of their genre imo. but it's just too tainted.

*I do on occasion still pop on The Crying Game ft Jessie Ware but needs must

there are so many variables. is the artist clearly guilty of something (Kanye, Diddy, R Kelly etc.) or presumed guilty of something (MJ), or just a series of icks (Woody Allen)? have they shown remorse for their crimes? (in almost all cases, no.) probably the shittiest one to have to give up was Roísín Murphy (and every now and then I do still play Overpowered or Murphy's Law).

I guess really it should be zero tolerance but for example Vicky Cristina Barcelona by Woody Allen is an all time fave of mine and I will still watch others of his films probably, and maybe Polanski's too. but if you illegally stream a film the problematic artist/director isn't making any money from that. whereas a Spotify stream however minimal the monetary value does fund the artist and allow them to keep their profile high / keep making music.
 
hyperwoof said:
Oh I have a special theory on this. Which is as follows - in general, people's ability to seperate or ignore the behaviour of the artist is fully related to how much they are prepared to live without their art. So, to use an obvious example, the world seems to have made its mind up on Michael Jackson - and they are not prepared to sack off listening to Billie Jean or Can You Feel it et cet, so they are just LA LA LA fingers in the ears about him. In the same way, most people are coping without having to crack out Another Rock n Roll Christmas by Gary Glitter, so he is evil and can burn and won't be getting a loving biopic made about him any time soon. So - art you cannot / will not give up - separation. Shit art - burn them. it's not a pure rule - and it may depend on the scale of the crime. I can and will listen to The Smiths, but I tend to find myself thinking about what a turnip that man is now, every single time that I do - so I think in some cases the person sort of bleeds into their art and can make you feel a bit icky.
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So it all boils down to people are hypocrites (including myself)
 
Jark said:
I really think it's case by case. I won't listen to Kanye or Nicki Minaj* anymore. a shame as both have made albums that are classics of their genre imo. but it's just too tainted.

*I do on occasion still pop on The Crying Game ft Jessie Ware but needs must

there are so many variables. is the artist clearly guilty of something (Kanye, Diddy, R Kelly etc.) or presumed guilty of something (MJ), or just a series of icks (Woody Allen)? have they shown remorse for their crimes? (in almost all cases, no.) probably the shittiest one to have to give up was Roísín Murphy (and every now and then I do still play Overpowered or Murphy's Law).

I guess really it should be zero tolerance but for example Vicky Cristina Barcelona by Woody Allen is an all time fave of mine and I will still watch others of his films probably, and maybe Polanski's too. but if you illegally stream a film the problematic artist/director isn't making any money from that. whereas a Spotify stream however minimal the monetary value does fund the artist and allow them to keep their profile high / keep making music.
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This makes me realize I’m conflating two different things: artists who are criminals and artists who have terrible views. Kanye West and Roison Murphy are different from someone like Diddy
 
Jark said:
I really think it's case by case. I won't listen to Kanye or Nicki Minaj* anymore. a shame as both have made albums that are classics of their genre imo. but it's just too tainted.

*I do on occasion still pop on The Crying Game ft Jessie Ware but needs must

there are so many variables. is the artist clearly guilty of something (Kanye, Diddy, R Kelly etc.) or presumed guilty of something (MJ), or just a series of icks (Woody Allen)? have they shown remorse for their crimes? (in almost all cases, no.) probably the shittiest one to have to give up was Roísín Murphy (and every now and then I do still play Overpowered or Murphy's Law).

I guess really it should be zero tolerance but for example Vicky Cristina Barcelona by Woody Allen is an all time fave of mine and I will still watch others of his films probably, and maybe Polanski's too. but if you illegally stream a film the problematic artist/director isn't making any money from that. whereas a Spotify stream however minimal the monetary value does fund the artist and allow them to keep their profile high / keep making music.
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Yeah I share your sad re Roisin, but she went so so off the end about it all that I just really felt like - I really don't want to hear you in my ears - and I loved Overpowered so very very much - I have it on coloured vinyl, but she's gotten in the way of it for me, I just cannot cannot get past her behaviour. I ended up deleting her stuff off of my iphone.
 
I don’t think many of my faves have been cancellable but since Carrie Underwood sang at the inauguration I have her blocked on Spotify. I used to love a good wail-along.
 
the good thing about being a music obsessed queen is that when there's so much stuff you love... forgetting about a couple of specific artists is never that hard. whereas your average local who only listens to four artists in total, two of whom are MJ and Chris Brown, is not gonna be so PRINCIPLED!
 
I think it's more an issue now with our consumption. I don't WANT to put money into the pockets of Nicki Minaj now, so I've removed her from my Apple Music gym playlist.

If I owned her shit on CD? Well, maybe I wouldn't worry so much...I don't know.
 
MJ is probably the only one I still play.

I won't listen to Roisin Murphy, P Diddy, Kanye West, Chris Brown, Nicki Minaj, Dizzee Rascal.

Why can't more white artists be cancelled?
 
Jark said:
the good thing about being a music obsessed queen is that when there's so much stuff you love... forgetting about a couple of specific artists is never that hard. whereas your average local who only listens to four artists in total, two of whom are MJ and Chris Brown, is not gonna be so PRINCIPLED!
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Jark said:
*I do on occasion still pop on The Crying Game ft Jessie Ware but needs must
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so
 
Yes, I still listen to Morrissey and he's a dreadful person. I don't listen to his new music, but that's because his awfulness is fully embedded in so much of his work now so that would require separating the ART from the ART. It's not like I'm sitting down to listen to BENGALI IN PLATFORMS either.

We punish artists for their views in a way we don't even think about with other businesses. I think this is because for an artist, we build parasocial relationships with them that are left in tatters when we discover these complete strangers don't share our values.

When we book a ticket for a gig, even for artists who are kind and tolerant and unproblematic, we're funding the awful people who own big arenas and actively lobby against gay rights, for example. And the same is true of when we buy a pair of trainers from Nike, a bottle of Coca Cola, or a bucket of chicken from KFC. And that's without getting into X and Meta and YouTube and Tik Tok. The awful people and the awful actions behind these products are obfuscated by PR and layers of corporate nonsense, but they are capable of much more harm than even the most hateful artists could ever dream of being.

Is it all just an illusion of control?

Anyway, this is a lot of words to say "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so Alexa, play 212."
 
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Any artists who publicly support Israel’s genocide are dead to me in every respect. The same with convicted sexual abusers or murderers obviously.

There are SO many other incredible artists, musicians, actors, actresses and filmmakers out there who aren’t scum. I enjoy their art.
 
It depends. I'll still listen to I Don't Wanna Know or I'll Be Missing You, but skip over the Diddy rap because it's rubbish. 😅 I haven't listened to Nicki Minaj since the MAGA support thing, likewise with Gloria Gaynor, but wouldn't mind one of their songs played on the radio or an ad.

Also listened to less Bryan Ferry after realising he's a Tory but I'll still listen to Roxy Music songs in general. Similar with Boy George, don't actively seek his work but Culture Club's fine. 🎶

I guess most artists have been racist in some (usually minor, kind of expected) way in their lives 😅 as long as it's not intently avoiding others who aren't their race, siding with killers, hate speech or some small boats/anti-immigration spat, I'll be alright with them.

Some mentioned here I never started listening to in the first place. :D
 
Similarly, any one of ABBA could go on a killing spree in a children's hospital and I am definitely still listening to them.
 
I read Mein Kampf in my teens, there's no film, music, books or art that I like that I would no longer watch/read/look at/listen to because I didn't agree with the artists' politics. They've already had the money and it just seems like cutting off my nose to spite my face when it won't make a blind bit of difference to them.
 
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If I've grown up loving an artist's music then I can't just turn that off, for any reason. Why should the fans be punished for the actions of the artist by not being allowed to listen to them ever again?

The way I see it, the law or God will punish the individual.
 
VV said:
If I've grown up loving an artist's music then I can't just turn that off, for any reason. Why should the fans be punished for the actions of the artist by not being allowed to listen to them ever again?

The way I see it, the law or God will punish the individual.
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If you stream a paedo, money goes into a bank. And you're gaining pleasure from a paedophile. But we knew that.
 
Agneeta said:
If you stream a paedo, money goes into a bank. And you're gaining pleasure from a paedophile. But we knew that.
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A few pence, if that. And in the case of R. Kelly, the money he makes has to be paid to his victims anyway.

Why is it always the bullies who take the moral high ground, when they should probably have been cancelled years ago themselves!
 
floppet said:
I read Mein Kampf in my teens, there's no film, music, books or art that I like that I would no longer watch/read/look at/listen to because I didn't agree with the artists' politics. They've already had the money and it just seems like cutting off my nose to spite my face when it won't make a blind bit of difference to them.
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I think I largely agree with this. Except the part about reading Mein Kampf; I’m not good at making time for books
 
I largely agree with Floppet. I wouldn't choose to stream a Michael Jackson album ever any more. But I'm not going to sweat over 0.003p or whatever it is if he comes up on a playlist.
 
Mein Kampf should only be read to gain insight into the mind of a monster.

Although as Zen says it's notoriously rubbish. A better painter, orator and cunt than a writer.
 
VV said:
If I've grown up loving an artist's music then I can't just turn that off, for any reason. Why should the fans be punished for the actions of the artist by not being allowed to listen to them ever again?

The way I see it, the law or God will punish the individual.
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there is no GOD!
 
Why is it getting fighty on some of the threads this week - I haven't seen this previously - is it the heat? Everybody needs a lovely iced tea and a nap.
 
hyperwoof said:
Why is it getting fighty on some of the threads this week - I haven't seen this previously - is it the heat? Everybody needs a lovely iced tea and a nap.
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Sadly, bullying has always been allowed to go on on here, by certain individuals.
 
The best book by a monster is easily OJ Simpsons, "If I did it", an extremely graphic detailing of how he would (:eyes:) have committed those murders.

I believe the victims' families get all the money from the book after he was found guilty in the civic case as well
 
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