Sheena's 2026 Athletics Thread

Tim was so fucking annoying. I actually like the bloke but he has zero idea at this point. “Elise Thorner should not be running the steeplechase, she’s too much better than everyone else, her coach should have made her do something else…how about the 1500m” (that she would never medal in) ?

5 minutes later

“A British championship is so important. Medals are all that matter”.

SHUT UP.
 
Stephen McKenzie, the Scottish long jump champion, is an absolute example of why facial hair is good for you.
 
But to the main event…

Amy was always going to trounce Dina, but that did NOT go down well. You could see it.

Interesting to see whether Dina is just trying a different method of peaking, though. She had the usual “oh it’s all going great” platitudes after, but she is getting better…

At this point, I still see very much see Amy Hunt double European champion, though.
 
SUCCESS :disco:

I wasn't that surprised that Dina didn't contest the final, I thought it was odd when she signed stuff for the fans after her heat rather than scooting off.

GHB obviously looked incredible and good news that it is apparently nothing serious for Keely.

Ol Tim really had several bees in his bonnet for the steeplechase this weekend. He had to change his tune swiftly today :D

Anyway, very enjoyable afternoon.
 
Not 100% sure on Dina. She's doing that "Blank look, everything's going so great, I'm so happy" thing, as I said above, but she said she was never going to contest the final.

Success looked great but I wasn't surprised. Amy's 200 isn't there yet- she has been (slightly) injured and they just haven't got the heavy work in yet- her speed is there, her endurance isn't quite. Hopefully just a bit more of a training block and she'll be fine.
 
The stars are just not aligning for Keely's season at the moment. Her knees look like they were shredded :(
 
Shame about the injuries but she’s also ran faster than ever this year so not all bleak - Werro has just been sensational. The Euros look interesting still as long as they all keep themselves fit.
 
FetchFugly said:
The stars are just not aligning for Keely's season at the moment. Her knees look like they were shredded :(
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She's clearly had something going on. I didn't really believe that "Oh there was nothing wrong" story from trials. That was a cover up.
 
Sardonicus said:
Do you think that godforsaken 800m world record can finally go soon?
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I think this era’s top ladies are young enough and talented enough to do it with the modern tracks and shoes on the right race and conditions. Which makes you wonder how fast Jarmila could’ve went with her chemicals (not her fault) and the modern tracks and shoes.
 
BoysForSeles said:
I think this era’s top ladies are young enough and talented enough to do it with the modern tracks and shoes on the right race and conditions. Which makes you wonder how fast Jarmila could’ve went with her chemicals (not her fault) and the modern tracks and shoes.
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I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced. Jarmila was 32 when she set the record, as far as I know she was mediocre for years until "training" started getting her dickhead times that have never been beaten in the early 80s. I can understand that maybe someone like Marita Koch was good enough to get close (not the silly 400m time she set, but still) but JK is, to me, the prime example of just how much chemicals can make a difference.

CqYnGqrWIAA4TQ8.jpg
 
@Sheena NAV's comment at the time: "there is no Czech word for tomboy"

FUNNILY ENOUGH she started posting insane tennis results that she'd never done before come 1982 too. Good training, eh?
 
^Yes, to me, Jarmila and Florence are the most obvious examples from the 80s but by no means the only ones. I think Marita would’ve been elite with or without but of course not 47.6 without.

I’m reading a book about GDR sport at the moment and don’t blame the athletes (and any other Eastern European athletes of the era) at all.
 
BoysForSeles said:
^Yes, to me, Jarmila and Florence are the most obvious examples from the 80s but by no means the only ones. I think Marita would’ve been elite with or without but of course not 47.6 without.

I’m reading a book about GDR sport at the moment and don’t blame the athletes (and any other Eastern European athletes of the era) at all.
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Marita would probably be close to or have slightly beaten Perec at 48.25, but we'll never know. 47.6 in Lane 1? Not happening.

Flojo was perennial silver, bronze medallist. We've discussed Kostadinova in high jump before - great athlete, long 90s career, I hope that one was legit. Chistyakova in the long jump I side eye a lot - nothing much else of note really, yet it stands. Thank goodness Donkova's record went.

I don't blame the athletes, but the system. They probably figured this would continue before doping got more stringent. Now we're stuck with obvious embarrassments.
 
BoysForSeles said:
^Yes, to me, Jarmila and Florence are the most obvious examples from the 80s but by no means the only ones. I think Marita would’ve been elite with or without but of course not 47.6 without.

I’m reading a book about GDR sport at the moment and don’t blame the athletes (and any other Eastern European athletes of the era) at all.
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Which book you reading? I've done MOST OF EM.
 
The thing is, drugs/doping give you a certain % of improvement, sure, but there HAS to be some natural talent. The comment about Flojo- she was an Olympic and World silver medallist before 1988. She wasn't an also-ran. Everyone always cites the GDR as "oh without drugs they'd have been brilliant" etc. etc., but you have to realise most of these athletes were doped from a very early age. So with your Kochs, Drechslers et al, you're having people who have taken drugs for 10 years before they peaked. If you look at Kratochvilova, Flojo etc., the obvious leap up (yes, likely from doping) suggests when they took drugs, or at least stepped them up, was in a much shorter window.

Also, the GDR's focus on technique and biomechanics etc. means they were all better trained than most of their western counterparts at that point. It went beyond "natural talent" vs "natural talent". It's incomparable- we'll never know.
 
Sardonicus said:
Marita would probably be close to or have slightly beaten Perec at 48.25, but we'll never know. 47.6 in Lane 1? Not happening.

Flojo was perennial silver, bronze medallist. We've discussed Kostadinova in high jump before - great athlete, long 90s career, I hope that one was legit. Chistyakova in the long jump I side eye a lot - nothing much else of note really, yet it stands. Thank goodness Donkova's record went.

I don't blame the athletes, but the system. They probably figured this would continue before doping got more stringent. Now we're stuck with obvious embarrassments.
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You have to look at all the Eastern bloc records as nonsense- Chistyakova, absolutely, but Kostadinova too. Bulgaria were up to it as much as the others. To be fair, all 80s records REALLY. The west wasn't immune- West Germany were systematically doping their athletes in their 80s, to keep up with East Germany, there's been revelations about that which weren't as well documented so didn't get the same publicity and the USA were up to their ears in it too. 1988 was the point their knowledge and tech caught up with the east- and why the US did so well in Seoul and why the GDR did (comparatively) badly, in athletics at least.

There is also the point here about how complicit the athletes were. Koch, for example, has a letter in the Stasi files complaining she wasn't getting the same levels of steroids as Barbel Wöckel, who had a family member who was the president of the drug company that supplied them. She knew EXACTLY what was going on. Now, you absolutely can argue she had no choice, but she wasn't being doped unknowingly.
 
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Sardonicus said:
I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced. Jarmila was 32 when she set the record, as far as I know she was mediocre for years until "training" started getting her dickhead times that have never been beaten in the early 80s. I can understand that maybe someone like Marita Koch was good enough to get close (not the silly 400m time she set, but still) but JK is, to me, the prime example of just how much chemicals can make a difference.

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The thing is here, the GDR were taking as many drugs as anyone, but they had the experience to know more doesn't always mean faster. It wasn't necessarily about that. The Czechs unlikely had the same knowledge the GDR had at that time. They certainly weren't sharing it- it was a bone of contention with the USSR overlords who were very pissed off when they lost out to the GDR in the medal table.

Funnily enough, post-USSR, there were documents uncovered that showed the Czechs were systematically doping at federation/government level, but Jarmila's name was not found in any of the documents, whilst loads of other athletes were. She may have been "rogue" from the system. Again, we'll never know.
 
I really should go on Mastermind about doping in athletics, god it's my favourite subject :D
 
Sheena said:
The thing is, drugs/doping give you a certain % of improvement, sure, but there HAS to be some natural talent. The comment about Flojo- she was an Olympic and World silver medallist before 1988. She wasn't an also-ran.
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That's what I said though! A perennial silver or bronze medallist. Talented? Sure. The ludicrous 1988 times talented? No chance.
Sheena said:
You have to look at all the Eastern bloc records as nonsense- Chistyakova, absolutely, but Kostadinova too.
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I did think you thought Kostadinova was reasonably legit, or at least, good enough to still be a dominant athlete once the doping era peaked. I think she was probably on something in the late 80s but was also able to rely on talent & technique to keep at the top.
Sheena said:
Bulgaria were, like most of the eastern bloc, doping, but HJ is one of the sports where it arguably doesn’t do too much and Kostadinova, of course, remained at the very top well after random drug testing and said bloc fell apart.
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Sheena said:
Koch, for example, has a letter in the Stasi files complaining she wasn't getting the same levels of steroids as Barbel Wöckel, who had a family member who was the president of the drug company that supplied them.
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Barbel Wöckel UPSKIRT (intriguing)
 
Shee I thought the other day - imagine if Gail, Gwen, Merlene, Juliet & Irina had formed a fabulously bitchy girl group in the mid 90s with MARY ONYALI on backing vocals :disco:
 
^Apart from Gwen they all seemed to like Irina. I suspect this was because they all wanted an ally against the others really and it would soon have changed if Irina had started winning regularly against them. Gwen was pretty much the biggest common enemy for all of them but the air was always thick with general disdain. I loved the iciness of the rivalries between them all!

Still awaiting Sheena’s podcast on the era 😉
 
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Sheena said:
Which book you reading? I've done MOST OF EM.
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This one, I’ve just started - it’s on GDR sport as a whole not just athletics.

The cover alone guaranteed my purchase. Marita and Marlies the two icons in the middle. In ‘87 with Koch retired and Gohr injured the decision was obviously made to up Silke’s dosage for those world championships where she was unstoppable as previously she was definitely Marlies’ supporting cast. Relay staple and Gohr’s club mate Ingrid Auerswald there too - tolerated as long as she didn’t beat Gohr.

IMG_0949.jpeg
 
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Sardonicus said:
That's what I said though! A perennial silver or bronze medallist. Talented? Sure. The ludicrous 1988 times talented? No chance.

I did think you thought Kostadinova was reasonably legit, or at least, good enough to still be a dominant athlete once the doping era peaked. I think she was probably on something in the late 80s but was also able to rely on talent & technique to keep at the top.


Barbel Wöckel UPSKIRT (intriguing)
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But someone (was it you?) said JK and FGJ were the biggest examples of just what chemicals could do. Maybe I misunderstood.

Stefka did carry on, absolutely, but was never near that level again. Common misconception as well that high jumpers weren't on steroids because of their size/shape- the Russian stuff proved that wrong for sure! So few people carried on from the pre-random drug testing era, but yes, Stefka was one of them. Supremely talented for sure.
 
Sardonicus said:
Shee I thought the other day - imagine if Gail, Gwen, Merlene, Juliet & Irina had formed a fabulously bitchy girl group in the mid 90s with MARY ONYALI on backing vocals :disco:
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I always said that Merlene and Juliet would make a fabulous duo :disco:

They'd have POOR MARY on backing vocals like an outcast Destiny's Child member and get PAULINE DAVIS in for featured leads :disco:
 
BoysForSeles said:
^Apart from Gwen they all seemed to like Irina. I suspect this was because they all wanted an ally against the others really and it would soon have changed if Irina had started winning regularly against them. Gwen was pretty much the biggest common enemy for all of them but the air was always thick with general disdain. I loved the iciness of the rivalries between them all!

Still awaiting Sheena’s podcast on the era 😉
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Gwen lost a lot of friends post-1992 and the comments she made about supposed drug takers winning medals ahead of her in the 100. She meant Irina and Gail, but said she wouldn't name anyone and Juliet kicked off at her at the 200 press conference and Gwen eventually admitted she didn't mean her (by saying "I will never shake a doper's hand but I will always shake Juliet and Merlene's"). Gail and her hated each other for a long time after that but had seemingly made up by Atlanta 96 and now seem to be friendly on social media.

Of course, Merlene and her had beef mostly after 1995 and Gwen being disqualified for stepping outside her lane in the 200 and Merlene's rather brusque response after. "She cheated! Of course she should not keep the gold medal, she cheated!" :D

Was always surprising the love for Irina, though. They all seem to go out of their way to say she was lovely.
 
BoysForSeles said:
This one, I’ve just started - it’s on GDR sport as a whole not just athletics.

The cover alone guaranteed my purchase. Marita and Marlies the two icons in the middle. In ‘87 with Koch retired and Gohr injured the decision was obviously made to up Silke’s dosage for those world championships where she was unstoppable as previously she was definitely Marlies’ supporting cast. Relay staple and Gohr’s club mate Ingrid Auerswald there too - tolerated as long as she didn’t beat Gohr.

View attachment 43730
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Yeah, it's a really good read, thoroughly recommended! I've passed it round our entire athletics group now I think!

There was generally a "golden girl" in every event and, yes, one got pushed above the others if they were showing signs for sure. Göhr was on a downhill slide from 1987 really, so yes, Silke first, but then they had Katrin Krabbe waiting in the wings and after Silke underperformed in 1988, they clearly threw everything at her.

Marlies still maintains she never took drugs, by the way. It was uncovered she tested positive when she was 17, but she claims she didn't take anything after that at all :D
 
BoysForSeles said:
Still awaiting Sheena’s podcast on the era 😉
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I keep saying about this to a few people with podcasts.

I really want to start my own, but I need someone to a)actually join me, b) do the technical stuff and c) push/motivate me to actually get it recorded. I've missed the boat as a few friends already have established ones. My idea is to do "The Greatest"- a podcast where we discuss, say, the top ten 100m women of all time, the top 10 performances at X champs, the top 10 XXX". It's boundless, you can keep it fresh by doing top tens about new events etc. etc...
 
I remember Ottey making that iconic comment live on air and thinking that was very direct! Privalova also backed her up but a bit more diplomatically saying there are rules to follow otherwise we could all do it.

Grace Jackson was always my 2nd favourite Jamaican, I felt like Juliet muscled in on her status with that one elite level season she had. I was surprised when Grace ran that 21.72 in Seoul to freeze out Drechsler and Ottey, though I believe Merlene was running injured at those games.
 
BoysForSeles said:
I remember Ottey making that iconic comment live on air and thinking that was very direct! Privalova also backed her up but a bit more diplomatically saying there are rules to follow otherwise we could all do it.

Grace Jackson was always my 2nd favourite Jamaican, I felt like Juliet muscled in on her status with that one elite level season she had. I was surprised when Grace ran that 21.72 in Seoul to freeze out Drechsler and Ottey, though I believe Merlene was running injured at those games.
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Yeah, Merlene even withdrew from the 100 in Seoul cause she was that badly crocked, though she still ran sub 22 in the 200 :disco:

Juliet was FABULOUS, but yes, literally had one season of glory and then was pretty much injured on and off and never got back to those heights again. I loved Grace, but she was very much out of the big glory era, which for me was 91-96 really.
 
And thank god cause otherwise that was a damp squib of a Diamond League, particularly after Monaco.

But yes, WELL DONE JOSH.
 
Josh was strutting around chest out before but fair play he smashed that.

And Valerie Sion lost to a DL record which cheered me.
 
Josh walks the fine line between arrogance and greatness and it’s fine with me as he tends to back it up and the arrogance is generally not directed nastily at anyone else.

He’s built the race up the whole season- loads of press/publicity around it in various circles. The peacocking is all part of the branding, which he is VERY good at.
 
Who's keeping track of the Europeans?
Werro out of the 800m :o
 
Halli said:
Who's keeping track of the Europeans?
Werro out of the 800m :o
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She's been advanced I believe.

I've been really enjoying it on the telly, despite all the chatter about empty seats and eighteen pound pork rolls. The win from MHS last night was a lovely moment.
 
200m final now :disco: Amy Hunt is so fab. such a joy. but I would love Asher Smith to do it too. c'mon ladies.
 
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