22 dead at Manchester Arena Ariana Grande concert bombing

Absolutely tragic.

If you're not safe at an Ariana Grande concert then there's really no hope left in this world.
 
Who is radicalising them? Grass roots? Or the even more dangerous media?
 
What a horrific thing. It feels scarily close to home knowing I've been there so many times and know three people who were there last night. I'm feeling much more affected than any London event. I was so panicked this morning trying to find out if they were safe. Hoping for positive news about your friend Jill.
 
cwej said:
Not that it's a debate for here, but suggestions that she's not that big of a star seem a bit odd to me... she's selling out two shows at the O2 this week. That's pretty big.

The only reason we might not think she's as big as someone like Christina Aguilera was 15 years ago, is because we're 15 years older. She was the 2nd most streamed female artist in the world last year.
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It's trivial really, but I was getting at the fact that she's not really a household name, certainly not outside of those that consume her music/their parents. A lot of the reports this morning had "So who is Ariana Grande" segments to put the news into context.

I guess the point for me is that I feel desperately sad for her - she's 23 years old. If this (god forbid) happened at something like a Take That or Adele gig, it wouldn't be a defining point of their career. For a great number of the population watching this news, "Ariana Grande" will thus make people think "bomb" or "terror attack" and that's just something really shit for a 23 year old woman to be saddled with.
 
There's been an odd tendancy in the media to imply it's a small regional arena.

It's the largest indoor arena in the country (higher capacity than the O2), and the second largest in Europe.
 
Book of stats: my mum (who works in a primary school) didn't know who she was and my Dad thought she was a band.
 
But they're 100 years old. I'm guessing most people under 30 know who she is.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Well, unless new drastic/radical measures will take place, nothing will change and this will continue.
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I suppose it's too early to speculate, but I do worry that it will give rise to a Trump-esque figure to rise in the UK who promises to fight fire with fire.

I pray it doesn't happen, but every new attack is, I think, going to wear down the resilience of people to "carry on", particularly when it's something so evocative as this.
 
Ag said:
Book of stats: my mum (who works in a primary school) didn't know who she was and my Dad thought she was a band.
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My work colleagues didn't even know who she was after I popped out a chorus of 'Problem'
 
Terrorist experts remind us every time: there's fuck all you can do with someone who's that determined and has a death wish.

This has been a christening of fire for Andy Burnham.
 
Slave said:
My work colleagues didn't even know who she was after I popped out a chorus of 'Problem'
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Break Free is my Ariana song of choice. One of the BEST pop songs of this decade.

I was disappointed to see Jessie J on the news earlier in connection with this.
 
And so the vicious circle continues. Apparently a mosque in Oldham was attacked. Mum says that my aunt was verbally abused on the school run this morning, and a colleague's sister was spat at in the face in the city centre.
 
Ag said:
Terrorist experts remind us every time: there's fuck all you can do with someone who's that determined and has a death wish.

This has been a christening of fire for Andy Burnham.
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The really depressing thing is that when it was discussed this morning on the news in relation to terrorist attacks of the past (ie. IRA) it was mentioned that there was a political resolution - albeit it took a long time to get there, but the ultimate resolution was there.

What is the resolution to this? Where does it end?
 
Slave said:
The really depressing thing is that when it was discussed this morning on the news in relation to terrorist attacks of the past (ie. IRA) it was mentioned that there was a political resolution - albeit it took a long time to get there, but the ultimate resolution was there.

What is the resolution to this? Where does it end?
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I saw something on the news about ISIS of the verge of losing their strongholds in the caliphate and turning their attention to attacking Europe. I'm not sure what that means. I guess diverting their funds and methods to practical cross-continental training. But then today like most are homegrown attacks. It was only really the Paris attack that was organised on such a large scale and was obviously funded from abroad.
 
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I'll be honest, I don't know a lot about the political motivations of ISIS - but what I find most unsettling is that it seems ANYONE can commit an attack, claim to do it in the name of ISIS and they'll happily take it. As in this case at the moment - ISIS claim it, but there are no links to them whatsoever.

This feels somewhat different to earlier terrorist atrocities where groups WOULD distance themselves from independent terrorist attacks.

ISIS seems to be an 'anything goes' organisation and that kind of nonchalant acceptance of anything in their name would seem to be able to motivate anyone who is of that particular leaning to do it without having to actually be PART of it. Although I'm incredibly naive about terrorist groups and I wouldn't even know what sort of membership demands they make.
 
Ag said:
I saw something on the news about ISIS of the verge of losing their strongholds in the caliphate and turning their attention to attacking Europe. I'm not sure what that means. I guess diverting their funds and methods to practical cross-continental training. But then today like most are homegrown attacks. It was only really the Paris attack that was organised on such a large scale and was obviously funded from abroad.
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Its basically a PR stunt, they are losing territory so they focus on headline grabbing to make them seem stronger and more dangerous. The whole way IS is marketed is fucking fascinating.
 
I had a read of one of their pamphlets in the form of a PDF. It was very well produced.
 
There's an interview on Channel 4 News right now with two parents who helped another badly injured girl. Really tough to listen to.
 
ZZ said:
I hope people get the message now and avoid Ariana Grande at all costs
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Seriously? :manson:

I'm really torn about how this makes me feel. At one hand I want to be rational about this and join the 'carry on because we don't want to let them win' brigade, but that statement isn't very assuring or comforting.

This attack reminds me of the Dolphinarium discotheque bombing in Tel Aviv. I was there shortly after the attacks and although you wouldn't know what happened there if you just walked there now it's still a chilling site for me. No matter how tight security is, you can't avoiding people blowing themselves up outside in a waiting line or in this case a concert hall.
 
The whole thing about Theresa May and all the other public voices spewing rhetoric like "we won't let him them win" is ridiculous. In the binary of us and them, I'd say WE certainly didn't win last night.
 
Such a weird weird day. Someone I used to work with and hadn't heard from in years randomly texted to check was okay plus messages from friends and family...it just feels so much more real than before being so close and been a bit wobbly all day.
 
Ag said:
The whole thing about Theresa May and all the other public voices spewing rhetoric like "we won't let him them win" is ridiculous. In the binary of us and them, I'd say WE certainly didn't win last night.
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The thing is, are THEY? Given their goals?

If the goal is fear then yes... but that is also piss easy and the effects will be temporary. I doubt arena concerts will lie empty forevermore.

In terms of the bigger picture, their ideology will never triumph. They can't even keep hold of their Middle Eastern strongholds. They're fucked.
 
Ag said:
The whole thing about Theresa May and all the other public voices spewing rhetoric like "we won't let him them win" is ridiculous. In the binary of us and them, I'd say WE certainly didn't win last night.
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I agree. That sentiment implies there's a Harry Potter-esque world out there where there's a clear difference between us and them, winners and losers and the good and the dark side.
 
Tetris-Rock said:
The thing is, are THEY? Given their goals?

If the goal is fear then yes... but that is also piss easy and the effects will be temporary. I doubt arena concerts will lie empty forevermore.

In terms of the bigger picture, their ideology will never triumph. They can't even keep hold of their Middle Eastern strongholds. They're fucked.
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Well I know all that. But it didn't quite feel like a win for us. Maybe I'm just being black and white about it.
 
I still can't begin to process it all. The video of the guy standing up to EDL protesters outside the Arndale has been a slight, but welcome ray of light in a fucking bleak day.
 
I see someone's been arrested for turning up at a vigil in Birmingham with a knife at a baseball bat in some attempted revenge attack I presume. EURGH.
 
I thought it was surreal seeing news reports from every corner of the city center earlier, but seeing videos of police armed with machine guns raiding a house a couple of streets over from your own is something else.
 
The terror threat has been raised from severe to critical, meaning an(other) attack is now considered imminent.
 
Gangsta Nancy Lam said:
I thought it was surreal seeing news reports from every corner of the city center earlier, but seeing videos of police armed with machine guns raiding a house a couple of streets over from your own is something else.
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'“In modern Britain everyone seems petrified to officially say what we all say in private. Politicians tell us they are unafraid, but they are never the victims. How easy to be unafraid when one is protected from the line of fire. The people have no such protections.”'

Morrissey clearly has never heard of Jo Cox.
 
Cécile said:
I agree. That sentiment implies there's a Harry Potter-esque world out there where there's a clear difference between us and them, winners and losers and the good and the dark side.
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Well there kinda is isn't there? I think there IS a clear difference between someone who will go out and murder innocent children and people who support that, as opposed to those who believe that's wrong on all levels.
 
Just read through all the appeals again for one last time. I can't do it again now. Just devastating.
 
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