A Journey Through SAW
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Eddie
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I’m still amazed they managed to get Terry Blamey on this. What a coup! He provides so much more insight than you would expect. Also both Mike Stock AND Matt Aitken don’t come across well in this episode.
I wonder what they are going to do when they get to 1991 and the break up of SAW. Will they even bother to cover Let’s Get To It?
I wonder what they are going to do when they get to 1991 and the break up of SAW. Will they even bother to cover Let’s Get To It?
Kala
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I think they have already said they will cover up to the last Stock and Waterman single.
FetchFugly
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Stock in particular seemed a little delusional. I did like Gavin coming in quickly suggesting that Kylie could have ended up like Jason if they hadn't moved her sound on, when he was bemoaning how they didn't sell as many singles or albums for Rhythm of Love.
Sheena
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I would say bitter rather than delusional, but I take your point.
Thing is, his point came across as if the songs were a misstep. Which is obviously nonsense. But part of his point is right- the singles (and album) DID perform a lot worse and there was general surprise about that at the time. I distinctly remember the Chart Watch column in Record Mirror (Alan someone) talking about how cruel it was that What Do I Have To Do was her smallest hit to date when it was by far her best single to that point.
I don’t think anything she’d have done would have reversed the fortunes to that point as she was critically derided and at saturation point. Gavin was right, though, in that those four singles did give her credibility which would have stabilised her career. Weirdly, credibility that they threw away with the Let’s Get To It singles, bar Finer Feelings.
Sheena
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One thing the episode doesn’t talk about which was odd was how What Do I Have To Do was mooted as first single at one point. Pete played a version of it on his radio show as “the new Kylie single” before BTDYK, didn’t he? I forget what version it was but it became something of a holy grail for some time…
I’d certainly never heard talk of Things Can Only Get Better as a potential single until the podcast, albeit that that idea was seemingly tossed out fairly early.
I’d certainly never heard talk of Things Can Only Get Better as a potential single until the podcast, albeit that that idea was seemingly tossed out fairly early.
VoR
Take it or leave it
The Rhythm of Love era may have been a commercial comedown from Enjoy Yourself, but by that point none of the other big names who were sticking loyally to the standard SAW sound were doing anywhere near as well, were they?
Sheena
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Eddie
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According to Graham Stygle (he of Don't Forget Your Toothbrush superfan fame), What Do I Have To Do was recorded in the same session as BTDYK and Things Can Only Get Better and was one of the songs presented to Kylie and Terry Blamey as "see we have just as good material we've written for you" so it is odd that it wasn't mentioned at all.
Unless of course they plan on giving it its due in a standalone episode.
(I think the video is much more deserving of that than BTDYK)
Unless of course they plan on giving it its due in a standalone episode.
(I think the video is much more deserving of that than BTDYK)
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Eddie
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This makes Mike Stock's disparaging of the material even more absurd.
Sheena
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According to Graham Stygle (he of Don't Forget Your Toothbrush superfan fame), What Do I Have To Do was recorded in the same session as BTDYK and Things Can Only Get Better and was one of the songs presented to Kylie and Terry Blamey as "see we have just as good material we've written for you" so it is odd that it wasn't mentioned at all.
Unless of course they plan on giving it its due in a standalone episode.
It was mentioned in passing a few times, though, so not sure why that would happen. But I didn't realise it was one of the first three, though it would make sense considering Pete was playing rough mixes of it.
Ellie
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Strangely all my fav music based podcasts are Australian productions. All very well researched, filled with amazing content and impeccable production. Is this a coincidence?
Eddie
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Has anyone listened yet? The sense of ownership that those at PWL had (and STILL have) over Kylie's career is staggering. David Howells seems the absolute worst.
Kylie's last single with PWL got to #20. Almost ALL (save for one) her deConstruction singles outperformed it . Her last studio album with them did not make the top 10. Both albums with the new label did. Yet he claims she was in the wilderness all those years. There's no acknowledgement that those years consolidated her success.
And the audacity of equating pre SexKylie to Spinning Around Kylie, as if they are anything alike is absurd.
Kylie's last single with PWL got to #20. Almost ALL (save for one) her deConstruction singles outperformed it . Her last studio album with them did not make the top 10. Both albums with the new label did. Yet he claims she was in the wilderness all those years. There's no acknowledgement that those years consolidated her success.
And the audacity of equating pre SexKylie to Spinning Around Kylie, as if they are anything alike is absurd.
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Eddie
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I can kind of see why he might be bitter about it though given that he was probably side-lined after Enjoy Yourself. After all, he was the person responsible for arranging the session and keeping Kylie and Terry busy when they were waiting to record I Should Be So Lucky, so he must feel like he had a pretty big stake in her career, initially at least.
Matt and Mike have always been full of themselves but it’s not without reason so I’m willing to forgive them. I did find it strange that they weren’t more enthusiastic or celebratory about Better The Devil You Know as it has very obviously always been properly amazing and clearly one of their three greatest songs but HEY HO
On a Better The Devil You Know front, that final “I’ll forgive and forget” and “it’s better the devil you know” (and the instrumental sections which follow) on the Mad March Hare Mix are two of my favourite musical moments ever. There’s a joltingly tragic and upsetting air about them. It’s probably chord- and key-related but I obviously don’t like to be a geek 
Pete Hammond fucking BROUGHT IT with that extended version
Pete Hammond fucking BROUGHT IT with that extended version
Sheena
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I haven't listened yet, but there is some truth in that. The deConstruction years might have had higher chart positions but bar Confide In Me, they all missed the top ten and it was the start of the era of discounted first week singles, so they were nearly all fan base "hits" which crashed in week 2. (Having just checked, only Put Yourself In My Place climbed- and that only had a long chart run because it was around Christmas and fuck all else got released in those days). Impossible Princess absolutely bombed here as well. I concede KM94 did better off the back of those first two singles, but she was KINDA in the wilderness by the end of the IP campaign.
I don't know what the pre SexKylie= SpinningAroundKylie means without listening, but the press and attention around Spinning Around entirely focused on "KYLIE RETURNS TO POP!"- it was a huge part of the narrative. I remember being petrified Spinning Around would be a novelty hit and then that would basically be the end of her again. Thankfully she had On A Night Like This to back it up with.
Ha yes! I enjoyed that as well. To be obsessed with sales when you’ve come up with those four singles (especially Better The Devil You Know and What Do I Have To Do) seems very silly but that was obviously their focus
I did enjoy the tale of Kylie and Terry sending back mixes with a note saying NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
Eddie
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But PWL Kylie was already on the wane. To suggest that her success significantly dropped off is garbage.
As for the comparisons he makes, aside from the return to pop he also implies that she was presented in the same way that Pete had originally seen her.
What, with a pair of hotpants firmly wedged up her crack???
lolly
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I think Stock is both bitter AND delusional - I don't think it's an either/or situation.
On one level I get what he is saying about not changing a winning formula, but time has shown the wheels had well and truly started to come off as she approached her third album. As others have said, the hits were very much drying up by the time BTDYK was released, and that's not just because the sound had fallen out of favour with a new decade - a lot of their output away from Kylie really was bilge by that point. A distinct lack of pop bangers and loads of insipid covers versions.
I think Kylie's instincts to develop her sound were commercially astute, never mind anything else. The fact that only she was giving them hits (other than one Jason cover version) is evidence to me that although in the early days SAW were probably correct in that belief that they could give anyone a hit, by the time of Rhythm Of Love, although they undoubtedly upped their game with those 4 singles, it was Kylie (and those mixes) who made them hits. Had they not been forced into that position, looking at what else they were releasing from the release of RoL onwards, I dread to think how her career had panned out. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd have doing covers with Big Fun instead of Sonia. And had that been the direction, I think we'd never have got to any era with Deconstruction.
On one level I get what he is saying about not changing a winning formula, but time has shown the wheels had well and truly started to come off as she approached her third album. As others have said, the hits were very much drying up by the time BTDYK was released, and that's not just because the sound had fallen out of favour with a new decade - a lot of their output away from Kylie really was bilge by that point. A distinct lack of pop bangers and loads of insipid covers versions.
I think Kylie's instincts to develop her sound were commercially astute, never mind anything else. The fact that only she was giving them hits (other than one Jason cover version) is evidence to me that although in the early days SAW were probably correct in that belief that they could give anyone a hit, by the time of Rhythm Of Love, although they undoubtedly upped their game with those 4 singles, it was Kylie (and those mixes) who made them hits. Had they not been forced into that position, looking at what else they were releasing from the release of RoL onwards, I dread to think how her career had panned out. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd have doing covers with Big Fun instead of Sonia. And had that been the direction, I think we'd never have got to any era with Deconstruction.
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Eddie
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I think this is partly it. Whilst David Howells is bitter that he no longer had a say in her visuals, Mike Stock and Matt Aitken resented having some of the control being taken away with the music - whilst she may not have been contributing to the song writing she was dictating direction by threatening to record elsewhere and having the final veto on mixes - very much at the same time that no one else was really doing the business for them.
It'll be interesting to hear what was really behind Matt Aitken's decision to dissolve their partnership.
I think Kakko probably killed it for Matt but I do hope they cover the reasons for him leaving
lolly
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