Labour: The Keir Starmer years (1 Viewer)

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?

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They aren't half fannying about, I'm sure this is down to not giving the tories any rope to hang them with, but why stick a figure on it in the first place?
 
why do this the day after needlessly affirming the pledge in the media. once again, who's advising these people?
 
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Don’t seem to hear or see much from Angela these days. Am I not looking in the right places or is she keeping a low profile?
 
God hes shit and hes only going to get in to power because the alternative is so much shitter
 
Do they have to put party first in everything?? Is this not just a bit different? "Oooh, the SNP are right but we can't support them, really, can we?". Absolute fucking wetwipes.
 
And I Ooop....



(Though I think this is a bad look for the SNP and they should just criticise the shortcomings of the Labour amendment rather than taking down the [admittedly bit shit] Speaker)
 
This whole thing is meaningless gesture politics for starters. Now that the speaker has allowed the Labour amendment, we have the spectacle of the SNP and Tories in cahoots attempting to unseat the speaker… showing it wasn’t about Gaza at all, just about embarrassing Labour for political advantage. Pathetic fucking children.
 
If that’s true then yeah, fucking dire. But then, why would anybody invested in this attempted blackmail of the speaker just admit it to a journalist? .. sounds like speculation from those opposed to Starmer
 
The sight of Tories, SNP and far left Labour working together to entrap Starmer on this (of all things!) tells you a lot….
 
yeah it breaks convention, but is within the speakers gift to grant it… on such an important issue, on such a grave situation, is it not right to debate any and all issues arising from it? Surely, if the SNP were doing this in the egalitarian way they purport, then they wouldn’t have a problem…. Surely?

Unless………
 
gggggg said:
yeah it breaks convention, but is within the speakers gift to grant it… on such an important issue, on such a grave situation, is it not right to debate any and all issues arising from it? Surely, if the SNP were doing this in the egalitarian way they purport, then they wouldn’t have a problem…. Surely?

Unless………
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The key bit where I think the SNP may have a case is

the SNP’s own motion may not even go to a vote.
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Which is fairly important when it's an SNP opposition day, and why government amendments are taken after an opposition motion has went to a vote.

However I agree that it's not the issue that should have Westminster as a whole embarrassing itself over, and no party should be playing politics with, which they all seem to be doing to a greater or lesser degree.
 
Ultimately the SNP have decided to bring this to embarrass Labour (working with the Tory government no less!), and are annoyed that the Speaker has decided it’s such an important issue that all amendments should be bought forward… thereby forcing them to deal with their own opportunism.

But then, as we know, opposition day motions mean fuck all, and this vote ultimately means fuck all…
 
gggggg said:
Ultimately the SNP have decided to bring this to embarrass Labour
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I mean, the SNP have been consistent in their support for a ceasefire, and against the collective punishment of Gazans.

The leader of the party's own family was trapped in Gaza for a spell.

I'm sure they're happy to embarrass Labour at the same time, but it's absolutely not the sole or even ultimate reason for them doing so.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
I mean, the SNP have been consistent in their support for a ceasefire, and against the collective punishment of Gazans.

The leader of the party's own family was trapped in Gaza for a spell.

I'm sure they're happy to embarrass Labour at the same time, but it's absolutely not the sole or even ultimate reason for them doing so.
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But why bring it as an opposition day motion, an empty gesture if there ever was one, if not to set up a dividing line with Labour in Scotland?

Yes it’s consistent, but it is playing an extremely precarious political game with the issue… and they got bit
 
gggggg said:
But why bring it as an opposition day motion, an empty gesture if there ever was one, if not to set up a dividing line with Labour in Scotland?

Yes it’s consistent, but it is playing an extremely precarious political game with the issue… and they got bit
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What should they do with their opposition day motion instead then?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
The political editor of newsnight having multiple sources is good enough for me
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Do you suppose there MIGHT be ‘senior Labour figures’ who might have axes to grind?

Besides, why make such a threat? Why would Hoyle give a shit anyway? There’s been speculation he’d stand down anyway
 
ZenGiraffe said:
What should they do with their opposition day motion instead then?
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Put forward a motion they know would get substantive support across the house, for such a grave matter as this… unity in the face of unimaginable horror

Instead of wording in a way they knew would cause a fuss… y know… rise above it?
 
gggggg said:
Put forward a motion they know would get substantive support across the house, for such a grave matter as this… unity in the face of unimaginable horror

Instead of wording in a way they knew would cause a fuss… y know… rise above it?
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What, the wording that is most in lockstep with the Scottish public AND now used by Scottish Labour, which Starmer himself praised at the very conference said wording was passed?

SNP MPs have said on twitter that they reached out to other parties and were ignored about the motion too. So again, what should they have done?
 
ZenGiraffe said:
What, the wording that is most in lockstep with the Scottish public AND now used by Scottish Labour, which Starmer himself praised at the very conference said wording was passed?

SNP MPs have said on twitter that they reached out to other parties and were ignored about the motion too. So again, what should they have done?
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Have you read the motion and Labour’s amendment?

Starts page 5 here, Lab amendment on 7… pretty clear

 
ZenGiraffe said:
I have, and your point?

If it's not so different, why not just support the SNP amendment?
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Do you think the SNP motion as written is substantive? Does it acknowledge the events which led to war? Does it recognise that ceasefires cannot be unilateral? Does it offer any kind of suggestion towards long lasting peace?

No? Well… maybe Labour did them a favour and they should back the more substantive motion as amended.

SNP are chumps for attempting this shite
 
gggggg said:
Do you think the SNP motion as written is substantive? Does it acknowledge the events which led to war? Does it recognise that ceasefires cannot be unilateral? Does it offer any kind of suggestion towards long lasting peace?

No? Well… maybe Labour did them a favour and they should back the more substantive motion as amended.

SNP are chumps for attempting this shite
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More words doesn't mean better. All Labour do in their motion is equivocate where a simple "ceasefire and stop collective punishment" is entirely appropriate.

It's not like it's the only motion the house has or will pass, it doesn't need to do everything.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
More words doesn't mean better. All Labour do in their motion is equivocate where a simple "ceasefire and stop collective punishment" is entirely appropriate.
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Is it? Because I don’t think it is.

Regardless, they knew Labour couldn’t support that as written for very plain reasons. They knew the government would put forward their own amendment, putting Labour in a bind. It’s an entirely fabricated bit of politicking, about an awful situation, that will do fuck all for the people affected.

But cool yeah let’s fire the speaker who gives a toss
 
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They're voting a motion to sit in private. Which means the galleries emptied and cameras switched off? The fuck?
 
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