Many many businesses DEAD

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Raining On Me said:
Although I will never prefer to buy clothes online. No size is ever a definite fit, you can't really be sure what it's going to look like either. And the FAFF if it's wrong. Shoes, yes, but not clothing.

All forms of entertainment media related shops feel redundant, though. I still use them but there's just no point the company paying for shop space and staff if it's all in freefall. I don't imagine Game have long left and I cannot believe HMV have any kind of future based on vinyl...
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I disagree- there is still a place for a record shop on the high street and the amount of young hipsters getting into vinyl shows it’s the way forward. Once the price point drops (as it’s beginning to), there’s going to be a massive boom. We haven’t reached the end of the vinyl explosion by a long shot...
 
Sheena said:
I disagree- there is still a place for a record shop on the high street and the amount of young hipsters getting into vinyl shows it’s the way forward. Once the price point drops (as it’s beginning to), there’s going to be a massive boom. We haven’t reached the end of the vinyl explosion by a long shot...
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I'm not really bothered about it myself but yes, obviously it's a major thing now and as you say once the prices are less ridiculous it'll inevitably grow further - but with most people not actually buying physical music and other in-store media on the wane I find it hard to imagine HMV thriving, although maybe in some outlets. But then of course it's never going to be what it was and "ticking over" is probably the new "raking it in" in high street terms.

Unless endless supplies of FUNKO POP figures for any old shit make a mint
 
big ron said:
On the flip side, where Ms Ron is from is a small market town, the centre was on the way down the pan but they build a load of new shinny retail units anyway, aimed and priced at major chains. No fuckers moved into them, but the smaller older shops have now gone down in price (and rates) so small bars, cafes and restaurants are popping up, and the town is buzzing again at night.

I can see a time when cities and town centres turn pretty much back into social hubs for leisure rather than retail led, and that can only be a good thing. Walk around any small town in Spain and its at least 35-40% cafes, bars and restaurants, always busy with a nice little buzz.
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They're doing the whole seafront up here just for this purpose but whether people here have the money to sustain it is questionable.

And they've done the same by opening a big expensive complex with Cineworld and other things, only for the "other things" not to bother moving in or pulling out altogether :D. That's changed in time and it's now at least half full but the whole thing seems half arsed and redundant. It's just fucking Greggs and Costa (which are 30 seconds around the corner in TOWN) and the usual suspects. The M&S Foodhall is nice I suppose but that moved out of the high street to be there...
 
Sheena said:
I disagree- there is still a place for a record shop on the high street and the amount of young hipsters getting into vinyl shows it’s the way forward. Once the price point drops (as it’s beginning to), there’s going to be a massive boom. We haven’t reached the end of the vinyl explosion by a long shot...
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This will be interesting because I think there are already significant signs that the balloon is deflating. The majors are running out of reissues and new artist vinyl isn't selling so well. The high prices are going to kill it before it has a chance to boom - the majors got into vinyl because they saw how easy it was to gouge the prices on Record Store Day and they won't give up that margin easily.

Best thing that could happen would be for RSD to die or for labels to pull their products and release them more carefully. Otherwise, it'll turn into glut, overstocks, returns and the format drifting back to marginal.
 
Is that true? Vinyl sales are still higher than ever and more and more new releases come out on vinyl. I’ve not seen a single thing to say otherwise bar your comment you made in another thread a little while ago

The reissue market is also continuing unabated as I see...
 
Sheena said:
Is that true? Vinyl sales are still higher than ever and more and more new releases come out on vinyl. I’ve not seen a single thing to say otherwise bar your comment you made in another thread a little while ago

The reissue market is also continuing unabated as I see...
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Vinyl sales are still peaking but the reissue market is a bigger percentage that it was last year. Non-reissues and non-"heritage artist" vinyl isn't doing the same business. This is largely gleaned from tweets by shop owners and also one cheeky journo who was trying to sell some on.

The labels are getting clever tho' - I noticed that Teenage Fanclub re-issued their albums on vinyl and these did surprisingly well, however, had they been released alosngside expanded CD reissues (allegedly coming next year), I doubt they would have been snapped up as quickly.
 
Record labels need to stop taking the piss.

There's a new Yazoo box set coming out called Four Pieces which originally was going to be a 4LP only issue, costing £80.

After much complaining from fans about the lack of a CD version, which I'm quite certain was at least partly due to the label realising they can't possibly justify charging that much for a CD set (if they can for vinyl), the label has now relented and agreed to a 3 CD set, currently under £15 on Amazon.

And now a lot of fans are desperately trying to cancel the vinyl they have already ordered as the majority of people still prefer CD, And certainly at that price difference.

I never had that much sympathy for the industry (the artists are another matter, I agree) when the CD market collapsed, because I think a lot of the blame laid squarely with them for shameless profiteering, and then the whole turn of the millennium giving away CDs with every magazine under the sun devaluing their own product fucked them over as well.
 
I've read similar to octophone as well regarding vinyl sales. The market is expanding, but sales aren't keeping apace.
 
lolly said:
Record labels need to stop taking the piss.

There's a new Yazoo box set coming out called Four Rooms which originally was going to be a 4LP only issue, costing £80.

After much complaining from fans about the lack of a CD version, which I'm quite certain was at least partly due to the label realising they can't possibly justify charging that much for a CD set (if they can for vinyl), the label has now relented and agreed to a 3 CD set, currently under £15 on Amazon.

And now a lot of fans are desperately trying to cancel the vinyl they have already ordered as the majority of people still prefer CD, And certainly at that price difference.

I never had that much sympathy for the industry (the artists are another matter, I agree) when the CD market collapsed, because I think a lot of the blame laid squarely with them for shameless profiteering, and then the whole turn of the millennium giving away CDs with every magazine under the sun devaluing their own product.
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Absolutely. The labels gouged the market by deleting successful singles so that people would have to buy an album at £13.99 to get the one song they actually wanted. These albums were often the singles + a load of tat so bad faith crept in. Once the internet enabled people to get the one song they wanted whenever they wanted, they were screwed because audiences were wary of albums.

The great unsung element of all this is the societal change in which people can no longer expect to be or to become homeowners. A large vinyl collection is a pain in the arse to shift about and if you're moving every year, it's going to get old very soon. So a generation of people didn't really want objects and now a further generation is coming through in the same circumstances. Those people have few vinyl album that look nice but how many more will they want?

Even that Yazoo set - it's a botch. One more disc and you could have their complete works so what's with this? I sort of made sense as 4 LPs, it makes none as 3 CDs and the thing is all a bit of a mess.
 
Sometimes I really do miss having a physical music shop.

But then, much as I’ll occasionally pop into HMV, I cannot remember the last time I looked at the music section.

The immediacy of music availability, whether paid, streamed or illegally downloaded just renders the physical product an afterthought. I can’t remember the last time I thought: “I didn’t know that was out”. The reality is that by the time you reach the shelf, you’re already likely to have heard (and own) the product.

I still get the occasional surprise with DVDs, but then I don’t follow release dates for those in the same way I do music.
 
The trouble is, the first thing to go was the marginal/specialist sections. There's an apology of a jazz section in HMV now and it's all cheapies and reissues. So I can't get what I want at the store. So I get it elsewhere. And I have less reason to go to the store. So the real enthusiasts stop going and the mainstreamers are getting everything online or in a supermarket. It's what Ned Flanders would call a dilly of a pickle.
 
I notice that a lot of music shops (ie. selling instruments, sheet music) now stock specialist CDs. I’ve no idea if they’re new or second hand though.
 
Oh, and regarding the vinyl revival, I'm sure I also read an article (I think after Record Store Day) stating that there's little evidence that there's a new breed of vinyl seekers coming through - it's largely a niche fixed demographic buying more and more.
 
Slave said:
Sometimes I really do miss having a physical music shop.

But then, much as I’ll occasionally pop into HMV, I cannot remember the last time I looked at the music section.

The immediacy of music availability, whether paid, streamed or illegally downloaded just renders the physical product an afterthought. I can’t remember the last time I thought: “I didn’t know that was out”. The reality is that by the time you reach the shelf, you’re already likely to have heard (and own) the product.

I still get the occasional surprise with DVDs, but then I don’t follow release dates for those in the same way I do music.
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I miss it in the sense that music felt special back then and regardless of how shit something was, you listened and persevered through those 15 filler tracks and STILL you gave it another chance or three because you'd paid for the damn thing and you'd taken it off the shelf, opened it and popped it in your CD player. So when something was actually really good, it felt amazing, like an event and you got wrapped up in that and nothing else.

Going totally off track now, but it's clearly why album campaigns seem less interesting these days, because they know damn well they can add things on a whim and release singles with random ambivalence or with the force of a hailstorm, whatever they choose, all with very little, if any, affect on a physical product.

I'm glad I can stream music now, mind, even if streaming has cheapened it. But then I listen to music less than I did and it's far less important to me these days.

It was the download era I struggled with. I honestly felt like I didn't know what to DO.
 
The physical heyday resulted in some terrible decisions having to be made. I will never forget going into Virgin or some such and deciding whether to spend my 15 quid (that in itself always felt ridiculous for a CD) on Groove Armada's album, on the basis of liking one song, or Tina Cousins. I of course really should have known better.

Tina I am sorry and I've regretted playing my part in your career flopping for 20 years :(
 
Beverley said:
Yeah, I can't imagine the mainstream getting into vinyl, no matter how many hipsters buy the stuff.
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I think part of vinyl shopping is going to a specialist record store and trifling through their shelves. It's more of an experience because they tend to have a deep and varied selection for the REAL MUSIC LOVERS. I was in a record shop in Manchester at the weekend which had a whole section dedicated to YACHT ROCK. Whole shelves for psychedelia and tiny sub niches of house. Why would you go to HMV for a vinyl? The enjoyment is in finding 10 you want, taking 2 and thinking "I'll do this again next month". Those independent record shops must be doing much better now than 10 years ago, ironically.
 
Anyway, back to Debenhams. It always seemed a prime contender to go. A bit more upmarket than the usual suspects and perhaps kept on this mortal plane by the fact it has so many sub departments and different clothing brands linked with its name, rather than lumped under one standard clothing umbrella. But its buildings are massive and the costs must be HUGE. It seems as likely a contender as any to suffer in the online age.

Way off disappearing obviously but clearly there are cracks starting to show.
 
Back to vinyl. I do pop into HMV more since I had my record player, but aside from Xmas presents I've not picked up anything. They can fuck right off for £20 an album. Nearly all my vinyls are from the stall in the market.

And yeah Debenhams demise is probably inevitable. Since BHS closed, they're the go to for thought free Xmas gifts. I like the homeware section too, but I know I can get similar in cheaper stores. The clothes section is a mess. They don't know whether they want to be high end brand or a cheap store.

If they do close, they'll take a huge chunk out of our town centre. The store is huge.
 
Beverley said:
Yeah, I can't imagine the mainstream getting into vinyl, no matter how many hipsters buy the stuff.
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Did no one notice how many people got record players as Christmas presents last year? Loads of people I know have suddenly started buying vinyl...
 
A lot of people I know are trying to make cassettes happen again. They can SHIT OFF.

There are good things about vinyl as a tactile experience and that bonding us to the album in a different way but most of my circle(s) never gave up their turntables so I'm not best placed to comment in that regard.
 
On new releases I see HMV are doing buy the CD for a fiver when you buy the vinyl (for twenty odd quid). I wonder how many takers they get for THAT.

I would really miss HMV if they went. Our branch downsized but they always seem to have at least a copy or two of anything new I want, and as I am sure I have mentioned elsewhere I do like the two for £15 on CDs. More often than not they are the same or better on price than Amazon. I do tend to try and buy from them rather than online and that wasn't the case a few years ago (soz Moopy Amazon link).
 
Sheena said:
Did no one notice how many people got record players as Christmas presents last year? Loads of people I know have suddenly started buying vinyl...
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I can tell you of three friends who had them and will all admit to not buying a single album since. They might bung on an old one or buy something second hand, but not for new music at £20 a pop. I agree if the price comes down that might sway things more, but when this has happened in the age of people getting out of the habit of paying anything for a physical product, it's an uphill battle. I'm not convinced that for a lot of people who got cheaper record players, it's not just a big gimmick already gathering dust.
 
octophone said:
A lot of people I know are trying to make cassettes happen again. They can SHIT OFF.

There are good things about vinyl as a tactile experience and that bonding us to the album in a different way but most of my circle(s) never gave up their turntables so I'm not best placed to comment in that regard.
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Does Kylie still have the best selling cassette of the year? I'll champion that stat, if not the format.

But yes, as much as the cassette was my format of choice for quite a few years, it's crap. It never was the best format it any sense other than being the most convenient or practical, arguably. So when you now have formats that are far more convenient and practical, why choose to buy something that sounds like shit and looks fucking ugly?
 
FetchFugly said:
On new releases I see HMV are doing buy the CD for a fiver when you buy the vinyl (for twenty odd quid). I wonder how many takers they get for THAT.
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Me on a lot of things! I’d never noticed it, though...is that online or in store?
 
In 10 years time we’ll be wondering why the fuck people spent tons of money on vinyl. It’s just a fad.

I did buy a record player but it was to play my old stuff and transfer the obscure stuff I have that’s not on CD to mp3. I HAVE bought 2 vinyl records recently though - Steps and Kylie and that was only because I collect their stuff.
 
I bought Dannii and the Let's Eat Grandma albums on coloured vinyl with the sole intention of selling them on.
 
Kalabaliken said:
In 10 years time we’ll be wondering why the fuck people spent tons of money on vinyl. It’s just a fad.

I did buy a record player but it was to play my old stuff and transfer the obscure stuff I have that’s not on CD to mp3. I HAVE bought 2 vinyl records recently though - Steps and Kylie and that was only because I collect their stuff.
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I never stopped buying vinyl, albeit second hand. It’s a joy to play...
 
The Cher Dancing Queen album is only £11.30 on vinyl on Amazon, not so far off at parity with the CD at a tenner. So I'll be interested to see how well that one sells on each format.
 
Sheena said:
Me on a lot of things! I’d never noticed it, though...is that online or in store?
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Both, though only on certain things and just preorder and first week I think. Anna Calvi was last week, MNEK this week (and that one needs all the help).
 
To be fair to Habitat they are selling some really nice stuff at the minute. (Back to the OT)
 
FetchFugly said:
Both, though only on certain things and just preorder and first week I think. Anna Calvi was last week, MNEK this week (and that one needs all the help).
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I investigated in the hope of Prince’s newie being in there, but instead there’s a £33 “deluxe vinyl and cd” edition, FFS!
 
lolly said:
I bought Dannii and the Let's Eat Grandma albums on coloured vinyl with the sole intention of selling them on.
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That Let's Eat Grandma album is the tits, I hope you've at least used the download code.
 
Well I’ll be right fucked off if Patisserie Valerie goes arse up. Quelle horreur and poor Madame Valerie :(

Not that I really ever go there. It can be a bit grubby and actually I prefer Paul or Le Pain Quotidien anyway so BYE :tongueout:
 
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