The War in Ukraine

Cloud said:
Kind of wish NATO weren't so stubborn about being open to anyone. They're supposed to be peacekeepers not an empire. I get they want to protect any country who wants it but if getting too close to Russia means shit like this happens then what's the point? Why not talk with Ukraine and ask them to remain independent with a promise from both sides not to expand or interfere into them. Bit late now but..

Anyway


The "reassurance seeking" part of me is grateful for this post.

The part of me that knows such seeking is bad for anxiety, knows not to read any following comments for now that may be picking it apart
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No problem. If people disagree, they're fine to do so. Those are just my thoughts based on what I'm reading and looking at what the situation will be a year from now.

One thing I do believe, and I mentioned something to this effect a few minutes ago, is that people are too ready to paint Putin as a cartoon villain and dismiss him as 'mad'. To me, that lets him off the hook; he knows what he's doing, his own self-interest is so wrapped up in this whole mess it's impossible to ignore. It also means he has a limit, and some perverse value system which constrains him. The preservation of Russia is that limit, and while he's clearly prepared to do truly disgusting things in its name, consigning it to nuclear oblivion is a line he can't cross.
 
Cloud said:
Kind of wish NATO weren't so stubborn about being open to anyone. They're supposed to be peacekeepers not an empire. I get they want to protect any country who wants it but if getting too close to Russia means shit like this happens then what's the point? Why not talk with Ukraine and ask them to remain independent with a promise from both sides not to expand or interfere into them. Bit late now but..
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I am loathed to start a debate about the rights and wrongs of NATO activity over its history, I am not sure it is the time for that. However, I think my issue with this is that, again, it takes decision making away from Ukraine itself. Further, on the pretext that NATO is a defensive alliance and not an expansionist one (except expanding its membership through nations which voluntarily elect to join it), then Putin has nothing to fear from it. NATO isn’t going to invade Russia because it likes the look of Russian territory. Putin’s only fear of NATO is its ability to inhibit his own expansionist tendencies (and we are seeing that play out in Ukraine).
 
Another hammer blow to Putin, from my app update screen

642A5F90-8180-451D-953D-7C9B56B338C9.jpeg


That will throw his campaign timetable and task checking abilities up the SWANNY
 
Diddy said:
Another hammer blow to Putin, from my app update screen

View attachment 8715

That will throw his campaign timetable and task checking abilities up the SWANNY
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Honestly, if certain apps stopped working because of what a country did, it could be effective. But it would have to be Spotify or Netflix or something like that
 
ButterTart said:
As far as I know, Spotify have ceased operations in Russia.
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What I understood out of this was that under russian law they were obliged to have an office there, and it was the office that they shut down, not the service.

Edit: Yes, it seems that the service is still working but they took down some state content.

www.wsj.com

Spotify Closes Russian Office, but Service Still Available in Russia

Spotify said it has closed its Russian office and that it has put restrictions on users being able to find shows by Russian state media. “Our first priority over the past week has been the safety of our employees and to ensure that Spotify continues to serve as an important source of global and reg
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
 
Indie said:
I've been saying people should do this for the last week. Glad I've still got my marketing touch.
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Yeah, I saw people calling M&S to do it as soon as this kicked off. Apparently their Kyiv was the first ready meal in the country in 1979, which is a fact I'd forgotten, if I knew it in the first place.
 
Biden “targeting the nuclear plant was reckless”

As opposed to the hundreds of innocent people who have already been killed? Okay then.
 
Queen of the Bay said:
Am a little confused now, I was watching some phone calls from people living in Ukraine and one said this is all happening because of the Azov Batallion?
Which I googled and I don't like what I see. Any expert on Ukraine to explain why this was turned into a regular unit of the official army?
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there's a documentary from a few years ago about groups like azov. it's well worth a watch for another perspective on the layer upon layer of shit that has been happening in ukraine. make it to the final part with the us officials. it's in french but there's auto-translate:



it was labelled as unfair by ukraine and where there's a man there's bias but suddenly, zelenskyy in military drag doesn't look quite the same.
 
Russia has blocked Facebook, Twitter and YouTube and Putin has signed an executive order making it punishable by up to 15 years in jail to criticise the state.

Such confidence :side-eye:
 
Suedey said:
I am sorry if anything I have said in this thread has been triggering for anyone. The truth is I am also quite stressed and anxious about this. Sometimes I use Moopy as a safe space to 'think out loud' and almost like putting my thoughts onto paper (as it were) but I should think of others too and how my words may be interpreted. Apologies again.
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I hope you don't feel like this. I haven't been keeping ABREAST of this thread for my own (FRAGILE) mental health, but say what you feel, be challenged on it, and learn from other people. It's something so unique to this forum as an intelligent filter of news.

I doubt many of us are experts on this complicated mess of a war - and if we are PLEASE DO teach us.
 
This is absolutely terrifying: five sky news journalists get ambushed by Russian infiltrators.

news.sky.com

Sky News team's harrowing account of their violent ambush in Ukraine this week

On Monday, near Kyiv, chief correspondent Stuart Ramsay and his team were attacked. Camera operator Richie Mockler took two rounds to his body armour, Stuart was wounded. Their experience illustrates the scale of the mayhem and violence as Russia's invasion enters a new and deadlier phase.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
This pressure to impose a no-fly zone is just going to keep on growing isn’t it? Very strong words from Zelensky tonight…
 
I think this is the first time we're seeing conquest of this level in the age of Social Media. Insane.
 
KindaCool said:
I think this is the first time we're seeing conquest of this level in the age of Social Media. Insane.
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And isn't it interesting to wonder if that's a good thing or not? Despite how it's allowed Russia to rig the US election, etc., for this actual conflict I'm leaning towards yes and think we're handling it well, better than wars in the past. They have to go to more extreme lengths to hide the truth from their citizenry, and I'm hopeful that eventually they're going to catch on. When Loufoque was saying his boyfriend's mother couldn't get images through FB Messenger, I thought, isn't that clue #1 that you're the one being deceived? I mean if tomorrow that were me I certainly wouldn't believe anything the fucking state told me. But of course it's years and years of conditioning (and the West is no angel here either) as well as draconian crackdown on dissent. Still, I think we're headed in the right direction.
 
vespertine said:
And isn't it interesting to wonder if that's a good thing or not? Despite how it's allowed Russia to rig the US election, etc., for this actual conflict I'm leaning towards yes and think we're handling it well, better than wars in the past. They have to go to more extreme lengths to hide the truth from their citizenry, and I'm hopeful that eventually they're going to catch on. When Loufoque was saying his boyfriend's mother couldn't get images through FB Messenger, I thought, isn't that clue #1 that you're the one being deceived? I mean if tomorrow that were me I certainly wouldn't believe anything the fucking state told me. But of course it's years and years of conditioning (and the West is no angel here either) as well as draconian crackdown on dissent. Still, I think we're headed in the right direction.
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I'd love to think that this will teach the world's powers that warfare is just not worth it, but knowing humans, they'll just try to hide it better 🤦
 
vespertine said:
When Loufoque was saying his boyfriend's mother couldn't get images through FB Messenger, I thought, isn't that clue #1 that you're the one being deceived?
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You would think, but from yesterday's account (I am no longer talking to her), it doesn't seem to have clicked yet. Our greater hope is that the elite cracks. The general populous won't.

There is an element of Stockholm Syndrome in this, I believe. You are 50+, you've spent your entire life in the country, you speak only Russian... what are your options, realistically? It's not like you're 24 and working in IT and speak fluent English / French / German...
 
Loufoque said:
You would think, but from yesterday's account (I am no longer talking to her), it doesn't seem to have clicked yet. Our greater hope is that the elite cracks. The general populous won't.

There is an element of Stockholm Syndrome in this, I believe. You are 50+, you've spent your entire life in the country, you speak only Russian... what are your options, realistically? It's not like you're 24 and working in IT and speak fluent English / French / German...
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Right. It's too devastating at that point. Oy vey.
 
Indie said:
This is absolutely terrifying: five sky news journalists get ambushed by Russian infiltrators.

news.sky.com

Sky News team's harrowing account of their violent ambush in Ukraine this week

On Monday, near Kyiv, chief correspondent Stuart Ramsay and his team were attacked. Camera operator Richie Mockler took two rounds to his body armour, Stuart was wounded. Their experience illustrates the scale of the mayhem and violence as Russia's invasion enters a new and deadlier phase.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Ive always fancied being a war journalist, thats exactly how fucking insane I’d imagine it is
 
I was reading a couple of articles yesterday, one was a woman in her 20s living in Ukraine. She phoned her parents who live in Russia, in tears telling them her home is being bombed and she's sheltering underground.

Her mum laughed at her, saying the Russians would never harm Ukrainians, it's the Ukranians harming each other. She refused to believe anything her daughter said, just saying she was watching the news in Russia and saw what was happening.

The daughter said she hung up on her parents and now doesn't want to talk to them.

How brainwashed must you be to not even believe your own child who is living in a war zone :(
 
Rachey said:
I was reading a couple of articles yesterday, one was a woman in her 20s living in Ukraine. She phoned her parents who live in Russia, in tears telling them her home is being bombed and she's sheltering underground.

Her mum laughed at her, saying the Russians would never harm Ukrainians, it's the Ukranians harming each other. She refused to believe anything her daughter said, just saying she was watching the news in Russia and saw what was happening.

The daughter said she hung up on her parents and now doesn't want to talk to them.

How brainwashed must you be to not even believe your own child who is living in a war zone :(
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If your only source of news is the state TV channel, your access to the outside world has been blocked and your economy has suddenly collapsed, wouldn't you at least stop to consider if you're actually the bad guys?
 
ButterTart said:
If your only source of news is the state TV channel, your access to the outside world has been blocked and your economy has suddenly collapsed, wouldn't you at least stop to consider if you're actually the bad guys?
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Exactly! That's what I don't understand. Although, have they mostly always lived like that with limited access to the real world? It all sounds very similar to North Korea. If that happened in the UK I imagine there would be uproar, but If they're used to it in Russia maybe they think it's the norm :confused:
 
Rachey said:
Exactly! That's what I don't understand. Although, have they mostly always lived like that with limited access to the real world? It all sounds very similar to North Korea. If that happened in the UK I imagine there would be uproar, but If they're used to it in Russia maybe they think it's the norm :confused:
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Russian Twitter and YouTube are (were) very much thriving communities, so losing access to both must surely have been noticed.
 
Interesting. I get the impression the older community believe Russia are innocent, the younger generation are against the war. That's partly an opinion formed from when we were in St Petersburg and the older generation were very pro Putin, anti gay, anti anything western, the younger generation were very much more westernized.
 
It’s not like this is exclusively a Russian problem.

A large part of the older British generation still believe Brexit was a good idea. Not to mention around 50% of America thinking January 6 was either a justified protest or a liberal stitch-up.
 
You still have got to be DEEPLY brainwashed to believe what Russia is doing now is right. And frankly it is not on the same level as Brexit brainwashing.

I have lived under Saddam's propaganda in Iraq. The majority of Iraqis did not think invading Kuwait was a good idea. We were mostly hostages.
 
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