The War in Ukraine

Ive been following a couple of conflict accounts for a while as I find it quite interesting. I have often wished I’d have been a war photojournalist. I’ve followed a ton more now. Its amazing that we can access frontline pictures in minutes.
 
Ag said:
The flow of refugees is going add a dynamic to this. 100,000 people have been displaced today.
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Apparently every male in Ukraine between the age of 18 and 60 has been told they can't leave the country. Grim.
 
Tisch said:
EU might as well have sent thoughts and prayers
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No, they will be debating whether to send thoughts and prayers next week. Some nation states object to sending both. Greece will only send Greek-style prayers.
 
Gangsta Nancy Lam said:
No, they will be debating whether to send thoughts and prayers next week. Some nation states object to sending both. Greece will only send Greek-style prayers.
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There’s no confirmation of this (obviously) but it’s nearly 3am in Ukraine now… (and it’s by a verified account, not that it means anything but YOU NEVER KNOW)
 
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Fuck sake. Just start settling back into life and settling down the anxiety as we reach the end of the Covid tunnel and straight away we have at worst the threat of nuclear armageddon, at BEST us all being even more massively fucked financially to think about.

Just hoping that a basic "not wanting the whole world to die" level of sanity prevails. Given the choice I'll dip out before it gets that bad, but I don't fancy cooking a rat in the wasteland and looking back in nostalgia when a particularly nasty coronavirus was all we had to worry about.

Dark Carnival said:
What even grows in Russia?
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Kremlin hostility, Putin's insanity

funky said:
I’m still trying to get my head around him point blank saying “I won’t invade” for weeks and then going ahead an invading

He knows his mic was on, right?
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He's really shown his true colours now. In some ways this is good, it lowers the illusion and lies, everyone surely knows at this point that he's a liar and that all the "you're just all Russphobic and jumping to conclusions" kind of shit is just gaslighting. The bad side is, well, does this extend to shit like "I signed this thing about not using nuclear weapons"? I guess this depends how desperate he is. Whether for example he has some terminal illness we don't know about and thinks "fuck it, if I'm going then so is the world".
 
Reading just how mad Putin might have gone is quite frankly frightening.
 
I genuinely have no idea what would happen if he died. Somebody almost as insane/evil within his party steps up?
 
His inner circle is supposed to be small. The best scenario is if all those former KGB thugs are put into jail and someone semi-liberal taking over. Realistically I guess it’ll never be better than a Poland/Hungary type of Government, but that’s already better both for Russia and their neighbours.
 
Beverley said:
@Loufoque what’s your perspective?
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I have not really collected my thoughts but assorted feelings and musings
  • The West must crash Russia's financial system. That means out of SWIFT, full sanctions on Sberbank (the backbone of the Russian financial system).
  • This will mean extreme hardship for the average Russian. I find it hard to separate my political feelings from my personal ones - do I want my bf's mother to live in poverty?
  • Germany and Italy need to put their selfish economic concerns to one side, and follow France (the only big, principled actor in Europe) with a hard line on sanctions, and mostly on energy. Germany is so rich, and yet they dither and delay, because it might prevent them from getting richer still.
  • The UK has the worst leader at the worst possible time. The damage the UK could inflict to Russian wealth is significant, but it will not. Of course, the BBC will push the line that it's doing all it can, and the public will eat it up.
  • Putin is too far gone now. He has gone insane. I think the only way out is if his inner circle realises this and pulls a Doctors Plot / Stalin scenario and assassinates him from the inside.
  • The Russians who protested yesterday are incredibly brave, and deserve huge respect. Not just for resisting huge amounts of propaganda, but for the huge risks they run to their own futures, careers, families, once they are identified.
 
Sorry if I should already know this, but does moopy have any posters in Ukraine or Russia?
 
I don’t understand the position on SWIFT at all. If it was good enough for Iran why is it not an appropriate stick for Russia? It is blatant self-interest from (primarily) Italy and Germany but those countries have been careless or at best naive in respect of where they take natural resources from. What is the value of solidarity if all countries are not willing to suffer a little bit of economic pain themselves?
 
One reading of this, is that Putin invaded, thinking he was the saviour and therefore expected little opposition, as a result the first day wasn't quite the roaring success it should have been.
 
Loufoque said:
I have not really collected my thoughts but assorted feelings and musings
  • The West must crash Russia's financial system. That means out of SWIFT, full sanctions on Sberbank (the backbone of the Russian financial system).
  • This will mean extreme hardship for the average Russian. I find it hard to separate my political feelings from my personal ones - do I want my bf's mother to live in poverty?
  • Germany and Italy need to put their selfish economic concerns to one side, and follow France (the only big, principled actor in Europe) with a hard line on sanctions, and mostly on energy. Germany is so rich, and yet they dither and delay, because it might prevent them from getting richer still.
  • The UK has the worst leader at the worst possible time. The damage the UK could inflict to Russian wealth is significant, but it will not. Of course, the BBC will push the line that it's doing all it can, and the public will eat it up.
  • Putin is too far gone now. He has gone insane. I think the only way out is if his inner circle realises this and pulls a Doctors Plot / Stalin scenario and assassinates him from the inside.
  • The Russians who protested yesterday are incredibly brave, and deserve huge respect. Not just for resisting huge amounts of propaganda, but for the huge risks they run to their own futures, careers, families, once they are identified.
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thanks for sharing. do you and others really think Putin has gone insane?
 
Ag said:
One reading of this, is that Putin invaded, thinking he was the saviour and therefore expected little opposition, as a result the first day wasn't quite the roaring success it should have been.
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There was some polling a few months ago which suggested that even in the ‘separatist’ regions, support for unity with Russia was under 20% and around Kiev and towards the west of the country was as low as 1%. He should have done his research.
 
Kratz said:
I don’t understand the position on SWIFT at all. If it was good enough for Iran why is it not an appropriate stick for Russia? It is blatant self-interest from (primarily) Italy and Germany but those countries have been careless or at best naive in respect of where they take natural resources from. What is the value of solidarity if all countries are not willing to suffer a little bit of economic pain themselves?
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I read that there’s fear for pushing Russia further into the arms of China, but surely the way things are now they’re hardly be getting closer to Europe/US.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
I read that there’s fear for pushing Russia further into the arms of China, but surely the way things are now they’re hardly be getting closer to Europe/US.
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Yes, I think that ship has already sailed! I keep reading how SWIFT will be kept in the back pocket in case the situation ‘worsens’ - worsens how, exactly? :D
 
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