The War in Ukraine (2 Viewers)

[Soldi]

The worry is that, other than tougher sanctions, what more can the west do? We all heard Putin’s spine-chilling warning about outside powers joining the battle - with him effectively saying that any country joining the war against Russia would be nuked.

 

[VoR]

This is interesting... both that Putin is already calling for military support from allies, and that they're rebuffing him.

Kazakhstan is denying a request for its troops to join the Russian offensive, NBC has reported.

The former Soviet Republic state has also refused to join Putin’s recognition of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent states, his pretext for the hostility.

A significant and interesting move here, from one of Russia’s closest allies.

 

[Loufoque]

Kazakhstan and Belarus are next in any case.

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Still alive and defiant

 

[ZenGiraffe]

It would be hugely fascinating the role leadership and social media is playing in this conflict if it wasn't so fucking terrifying

 

[Loufoque]

I pray that Zelenksy survives.

 

[Cerro de Casa]

He is now a worldwide symbol of Ukrainian defiance, bravery and resistance.

I hope he will make it but I am doubtful.

 

[Iguana]

I'm equally anxious about what happens to him (and any other symbol of Ukrainian independence) if he does survive

 

[Iguana]

The bravery of the Ukrainian people is awe-inspiring. I don't know where they find it. It's the one spark of hope in this whole sorry saga

 

[RS]

I don’t know if this is real or not but if there’s anything that would make people revolt it would be this

 

[Kratz]

This is interesting... both that Putin is already calling for military support from allies, and that they're rebuffing him.

That seems significant.

The threats to Sweden and Finland are astonishing. Admit them both to NATO immediately and see what happens.

 

[Soldi]

Dozens of BA flights cancelled due to ‘technical issues’

EDIT: Apparently they’re saying it’s not a cyber attack.

 

[RS]

That seems significant.

The threats to Sweden and Finland are astonishing. Admit them both to NATO immediately and see what happens.

Our Government doesn’t want us to join (and neither does the majority of the people). It’s better to stay outside and wait for others to help us when we need them, than to join and be forced to help others out.

 

[Kratz]

Dozens of BA flights cancelled due to ‘technical issues’

EDIT: Apparently they’re saying it’s not a cyber attack.

I mean it’s BA - it probably isn’t Russia

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Our Government doesn’t want us to join (and neither does the majority of the people). It’s better to stay outside and wait for others to help us when we need them, than to join and be forced to help others out.

Because we've got such a stellar track record on that

 

[Kratz]

And the attacks on hospital and apartment buildings and hospital, well those are war crimes, surely?

 

[RS]

Because we've got such a stellar track record on that

This is Sweden we’re talking about; not Poland or Czechoslovakia. We’re expecting better treatment.

 

[Kratz]

Because we've got such a stellar track record on that

I think being asked, as western countries clearly are being in Ukraine, is different to barging in as supposed liberators (western nations have usually been effective at the former if not the latter).

Europe is quite poorly equipped to defend itself overall, apart from the UK and France. NATO really is the only option beyond significantly arming yourself.

 

[Kratz]

This queen is on Sky News now

 

[Marina Salty]

I don’t know if this is real or not but if there’s anything that would make people revolt it would be this

View attachment 8584

It's not but it would be a nice one if it was.

 

[Penelope]

Starting to get internal pushback from the 'managed opposition'...

 

[Penelope]

Also LOL at the messiness of this tweet

 

[Soldi]

 

[Mats]

Our Government doesn’t want us to join (and neither does the majority of the people). It’s better to stay outside and wait for others to help us when we need them, than to join and be forced to help others out.

Sweden on the fence as usual!

 

[Marina Salty]

This is Sweden we’re talking about; not Poland or Czechoslovakia. We’re expecting better treatment.

But from what west will you be expecting help in that scenario? The NATO?
Or the EU who doesn't even have an army and is allergic to the idea because "we have NATO for that"?

 

[Madison]

Lisbon does have some sort of vague mutual defence clause that, sort of, commits members states to assist each other (except possibly Denmark).

 

[wildchild]

For the Swifters;

 

[Kratz]

I love how nations are directly testing resolve here. From the Scandinavian and Baltic nations forcing the hand of the EBU yesterday, to this. What can FIFA do? Throwing Poland out would be a disastrous decision.

 

[Kratz]

For the Swifters;

Is it just Germany and Hungary now?

 

[Soldi]

I love how nations are directly testing resolve here. From the Scandinavian and Baltic nations forcing the hand of the EBU yesterday, to this. What can FIFA do? Throwing Poland out would be a disastrous decision.

Sweden and the Czech Republic have both said they won’t play a match in Russia either, and Poland/Russia would host the final in that group. The only thing UEFA/FIFA can do at this point is throw Russia out, and give Poland a bye to the final.

 

[Marina Salty]

Is it just Germany and Hungary now?

This looks like Italy agreed on SWIFT on the condition that their luxury goods are exempted from the sanctions.
Germany still says No though. Cyprus officials deny any reluctance on their side and say will agree with any measures, SWIFT included. No idea about Hungary's current position.

I think so.

 

[Marina Salty]

Lisbon does have some sort of vague mutual defence clause that, sort of, commits members states to assist each other (except possibly Denmark).

Very true. What Lisbon treaty says is that "If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation."

So the actual type of aid and assistance is never specified, it could well be tweets of solidarity, lighting up buildings in the light of your flag, sanctions etc, not to mention that there's also a complete lack of timeframe set for this, so until the EU hold its meetings to decide upon what type of aid and solidarity they will agree to provide, the situation could well be irreversible. And it still makes reference of the NATO as the foundation of our collective defence.

 

[Madison]

The only thing UEFA/FIFA can do at this point is throw Russia out, and give Poland a bye to the final.

Or they could be cack-handed and DSQ Poland and then the others.

 

[dmlaw]

Sweden and the Czech Republic have both said they won’t play a match in Russia either, and Poland/Russia would host the final in that group. The only thing UEFA/FIFA can do at this point is throw Russia out, and give Poland a bye to the final.

UEFA have already banned matches in their competitions from taking place in Russia, so their club teams which are still in Europe would have to play ‘home’ matches at a neutral venue. I could see FIFA doing the same for the World Cup playoff and then telling Poland to get on with it.

 

[Marina Salty]

On the SWIFT thing again, yesterday there was some information about the German Finance Minister being in favour, but later on there was news about the Chancellor saying that it is not the time yet for it, so at least since yesterday, Germany is not completely disregarding it. This could change further today now that they're left isolated in their no with Hungary.
Still can't find any progress being made with Hungary though.

 

[ButterTart]

the EU who doesn't even have an army

This is an interesting point; Brexit was fought on the lie that the EU wanted an army and the public were dead against it. Is an EU army seen as a positive thing elsewhere?

 

[Soldi]

If ya wanna go there come to fucking Belfast

 

[RS]

But from what west will you be expecting help in that scenario? The NATO?
Or the EU who doesn't even have an army and is allergic to the idea because "we have NATO for that"?

Yes, we have some kind of guarantee from NATO, I don’t know how official it is but it’s what politicians refer to here.

 

[Loufoque]

Good that Italy and Cyprus are in.

Fuck Germany. You would think that they wouldn't want to be complicit in the destruction of an Eastern neighbour, but I guess their war guilt only goes as far as not hurting their own wallets.

 

[Marina Salty]

This is an interesting point; Brexit was fought on the lie that the EU wanted an army and the public were dead against it. Is an EU army seen as a positive thing elsewhere?

It's seen as a fundamental necessity over here but we have to live in the outskirts of the continent with an active war threat and an autocratic aggressor, so the necessity is evidently very real daily.
Countries who are well in the heart of the continent, or on the safe sides of it, feel very much buffered and safe so they see no need for this and would have preferred this money would be used elsewhere.
The exception to that "bitch please not my problem that you chose to live in the worst neighborhood" attitude has always been France.
Macron has been pushing for this any way he can since forever but he doesn't run the EU. Merkel was.