The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions (15 Viewers)

K.C. said:
The West needs to stay out of the Middle East - not because they don't understand Middle Eastern people, but because they don't understand Middle Eastern political calculus. They assume that 'deep down' ME governments will eventually prioritize their societies over themselves, when many of their regimes have repeatedly demonstrated that they will impoverish, terrorize, murder, imprison, and sacrifice large parts of their own population before allowing the ruling order to collapse, ESPECIALLY at the hands of the West. Khameini's death was a VERY welcome silver lining, but ultimately Western intervention has strengthened ME regimes more than anything else - ESPECIALLY the theocratic ones. Capitulating to or entertaining the West is nothing short of heresy and, to the Irani regime, every life sacrificed for it is worth it.

The Middle East has never needed outsiders to make it an unlivable human rights craphole. Netanyahu, the Ayatollah, the proxies - all in a long line of thugs that preceded America and will easily outlast it. And the West's naive political misjudgments only ever make it worse, if not HELP them.
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It’s funny, because I remember being accused of defending the regime in Iran when I made the exact point that region doesn’t need ANOTHER war :eyes:
 
Dark Carnival said:
It’s funny, because I remember being accused of defending the regime in Iran when I made the exact point that region doesn’t need ANOTHER war :eyes:
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And I remember being accused of defending Trump even though I've disapproved of just about everything about him. Let's not pretend EITHER of those accusations actually mean anything.

Your much greater offense was your readiness to substitute a personal anecdotal experience for actual expertise. Your subjective experience doesn't automatically make you an authority. This fallacy has basically become part of the modern Liberal playbook. Catherine Liu (an established Leftist Marxist critic herself) has critiqued this very well for years. It's an insult to both your experience and the study of politics.

But even worse is the indignity of being lectured by you about Middle Eastern suffering. As if my experience is so short on pain and misery that I need yours too. You know how Americans openly hate their country because they can't get universal healthcare and DEI? Take that, multiply it by about 10 Trillion and you've got how I feel about the ME. On a good day, I feel nothing for the ME.
The second I was BORN my country wanted me dead. I've lost family to both Iraqi and Irani terrorists. I've been religiously indoctrinated in Iraqi public schools. I've been permanently exiled from my own ancestral homeland. And those were just my short years. My entire ethnic group has been experiencing mass killings and genocides for more than 100 years. No Western moral outrage, no celebrity tweets, no nothing.
And you wanna preach to me? Please don't make me laugh. I have hundreds of horrific anecdotes of my own. And I HATE that I have to parade my misery around because YOU think that's how you win arguments.
 
It's difficult because on the one hand HURRAH for the support acts standing firm when they can much less afford their morals

BUT amidst Ed's otherwise mealy pissweak statement, there is ONE point that I can understand. As everyone has pointed out - Ed can afford to cancel. But his doing so does also trash the incomes of a lot of crew and support staff who aren't millionaires. Would it be right to make them all pay for your principles? The answer may very well still be YES, but it's not as easy a decision as we assume.

I do think the evil stadium owners should really be the ones feeling the IRE
 
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I think he could easily cancel the dates and pay the crew for the remainder of the shows.

Ed Sheeran has an estimated net worth of about £370 million, which is roughly $350 million to $400 million USD. This fortune places him among the richest musicians in the United Kingdom
 
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K.C. said:
And I remember being accused of defending Trump even though I've disapproved of just about everything about him. Let's not pretend EITHER of those accusations actually mean anything.

Your much greater offense was your readiness to substitute a personal anecdotal experience for actual expertise. Your subjective experience doesn't automatically make you an authority. This fallacy has basically become part of the modern Liberal playbook. Catherine Liu (an established Leftist Marxist critic herself) has critiqued this very well for years. It's an insult to both your experience and the study of politics.

But even worse is the indignity of being lectured by you about Middle Eastern suffering. As if my experience is so short on pain and misery that I need yours too. You know how Americans openly hate their country because they can't get universal healthcare and DEI? Take that, multiply it by about 10 Trillion and you've got how I feel about the ME. On a good day, I feel nothing for the ME.
The second I was BORN my country wanted me dead. I've lost family to both Iraqi and Irani terrorists. I've been religiously indoctrinated in Iraqi public schools. I've been permanently exiled from my own ancestral homeland. And those were just my short years. My entire ethnic group has been experiencing mass killings and genocides for more than 100 years. No Western moral outrage, no celebrity tweets, no nothing.
And you wanna preach to me? Please don't make me laugh. I have hundreds of horrific anecdotes of my own. And I HATE that I have to parade my misery around because YOU think that's how you win arguments.
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I have literally no idea why you’re bringing all of this up. Your personal/family experience is yours and no one’s invalidating that. Funnily, my background and ultimately my own experience is extremely similar to everything you’ve described. Not saying it’s more or less valid, it’s mine. I’m just glad to see you’ve come to the same conclusion that the region did not need another war.
 
Good Lord I love the fact that apolitical Ed has emerged from this as a capitalist hack who turns a blind eye to genocide!

As someone else has said, the vast majority of his fans won’t care, as most people seem to be asleep about it, but it’s rather tasty that he’s been outed as the ambitious, self serving opportunist he has always been.
 
Dark Carnival said:
I have literally no idea why you’re bringing all of this up. Your personal/family experience is yours and no one’s invalidating that. Funnily, my background and ultimately my own experience is extremely similar to everything you’ve described. Not saying it’s more or less valid, it’s mine. I’m just glad to see you’ve come to the same conclusion that the region did not need another war.
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I mean I think we can agree that NO region needs another war. But preach that to the Middle Eastern regimes first. They've been killing each other and their own people just fine on their own, without the West. Where has all this concern and outrage been for the last century? Long before Gaza, long before Israel, long before America, other religious and ethnic minorities have been enduring massacres and genocides for decades, if not centuries. But the West cares NOW because it's happening on its dime and because it can be framed through its post-colonial guilt.

And I'm saying this because that's the prevalent thinking in the West. I experienced it in New Zealand and it's much worse in America. The number of times I've had to sit in front of a clueless ignorant Westerner (White or otherwise) and listen to them explain to me about how 'helpless' the Middle East was and how it was totally fine before the evil Americans came and "ruined it" is astounding and infuriating. NZ and America have been better homes to my family and me than the Middle East will ever amount to, and I'll carry their flags before I even spit on an Iraqi flag. In fact, it was the Gulf War and its aftermath that led to the reopening of Iraq's borders after a decade of being caged in. To us, that was EXTREMELY welcome foreign intervention, whether American or otherwise. Nuance like that gets completely lost to dumbass Westerners who only know how to interpret everything through their colonial framework and are ignorant that different people have a very different relationship with the Middle East, with Islam, and with the West.
 
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funky said:
Good Lord I love the fact that apolitical Ed has emerged from this as a capitalist hack who turns a blind eye to genocide!

As someone else has said, the vast majority of his fans won’t care, as most people seem to be asleep about it, but it’s rather tasty that he’s been outed as the ambitious, self serving opportunist he has always been.
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Its quite funny that he said he was doing it to protect the support acts and staff and they all just said "fuck your money we have morals"

Ah well I'm sure he'll sleep well on his bed of $$$s
 
Wow Ed’s impersonator is a flag waving Muslim hating racist!

Just the support he needed…
 
Lots of people have been sharing Ed ‘apolitical’ Sheeran’s videos from 2022 where he publicly supported Ukraine.

The internet is internetting today 👏
 
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