The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

Agneeta said:

The Israeli settlements are absolutely outrageous. Just demolishing whole communities and replacing them. Why is no-one stopping this?

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We wrote a stern letter, what more do you want?

Just sad. The state Iraq has been left in by war and extremists just doesn't get enough attention. The environmental impact is especially dire. I think if it was ever safe enough to go back I'd feel like a freak of nature. If there's even anything to go back to.

“You shouldn’t believe that what you read about Israeli settlements, it’s propaganda. Palestinians aren’t being targeted. It’s fake news”



Hope Joanne and Voodoo are browsing from afar and can enjoy this clip

"It's time for the state of Israel to publicly recognize that the Malvinas Islands [the Argentine name for the Falkland Islands] are Argentine territory under occupation, which the British violently steal from the Argentine people."

The AUDACITY!

What a shock, considering that Argentina recently joined Trump’s allied nations of problematic populist cunts

Oh no, not Israel. So influential.

I'm sure Hannah Spencer and Jeremy Corbyn's holiday plans are in SHAMBLES now.

so their blacklist in response to the Labour government's position on Israeli settlers features almost no Labour MPs? smart

I think today's coordinated announcement with Canada and France seems smart and has been handled well, but doesn't go anywhere near far enough. mostly it dismays me to see the reaction along the lines of "this punishes ordinary Jews, this punishes ordinary Israelis and hurts Palestinians" - fuck off. the settlers as backed by the IDF are hurting, displacing and killing Palestinians.

the Israeli government are shameless and need to be hit a lot harder than this because right now it feels a little self congratulatory from the UK gov. let's see how it develops.

this pisses right me off.

Sainthood for Ed Milliband please

How does Britain giving Israel sanctions put British Jews in harms way? Are they claiming indirect anti-semitism? If that’s the case, maybe Israel should stop bombing hospitals and schools as that might help a bit?

Obvs all political posturing to save face cuz Israel needs to appear 'resolute' in their convictions.

Also, the Falklands maneuver reads incredibly desperate. Israel is literally shooting itself in the foot backing Argentina just to spite Britain.

Agneeta said:

Sainthood for Ed Milliband please

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Let's not suck his dick just yet. He's basically admitted there is evidence of ethnic cleansing (huge) and all they've done is sanctioned the settlements. The slightest of slight punishments in the grand scheme of things, a tap on the wrist, and Israel have responded with an almighty tantrum. This is why countries don't want to call them out.

By the way, the title of this thread bugs the shit out of me. There is no Israel-Gaza "war". There is a genocide against an occupied people with no army. It is NOT a war.

Art Decade said:

Strikes shut down key Saudi pipeline as Iran-backed Houthis tighten grip on crucial shipping lane

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is urging President Donald Trump to take military action against the Houthis, according to a person familiar with the matter.

www.nbcnews.com

Smoke seen near crucial Saudi oil pipeline as Houthi conflict escalates

www.independent.co.uk

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Of course this got ignored.

Another shit-stain group on the toilet bowl that is the Middle East. The worst thing about this is that the Houthis are starting to exercise more and more strategic autonomy from Iran. Most of their weapons are still supplied by Iran, but their decision-making is growing more independent and they're even starting to manufacture their own weapons. And they are absolutely in the position to control and choke the Strait. They don't even have to close it. The uncertainty alone is enough to make commodity prices skyrocket.

Saudi Arabia is fucked. Iran and their proxies have snipped off their two primary trade arteries, including their supposed 'backup'. America refused to send military help because they're already caught up in the war on the Persian Gulf front. Trump is truly the biggest loser here. Him and his trailer park hicks really thought a couple of bombs and a flashy leadership decapitation would squeeze Iran, shrink the war, and they'd walk away as the 'saviors'.

The West needs to stay out of the Middle East - not because they don't understand Middle Eastern people, but because they don't understand Middle Eastern political calculus. They assume that 'deep down' ME governments will eventually prioritize their societies over themselves, when many of their regimes have repeatedly demonstrated that they will impoverish, terrorize, murder, imprison, and sacrifice large parts of their own population before allowing the ruling order to collapse, ESPECIALLY at the hands of the West. Khameini's death was a VERY welcome silver lining, but ultimately Western intervention has strengthened ME regimes more than anything else - ESPECIALLY the theocratic ones. Capitulating to or entertaining the West is nothing short of heresy and, to the Irani regime, every life sacrificed for it is worth it.

The Middle East has never needed outsiders to make it an unlivable human rights craphole. Netanyahu, the Ayatollah, the proxies - all in a long line of thugs that preceded America and will easily outlast it. And the West's naive political misjudgments only ever make it worse, if not HELP them.

K.C. said:

The West needs to stay out of the Middle East - not because they don't understand Middle Eastern people, but because they don't understand Middle Eastern political calculus. They assume that 'deep down' ME governments will eventually prioritize their societies over themselves, when many of their regimes have repeatedly demonstrated that they will impoverish, terrorize, murder, imprison, and sacrifice large parts of their own population before allowing the ruling order to collapse, ESPECIALLY at the hands of the West. Khameini's death was a VERY welcome silver lining, but ultimately Western intervention has strengthened ME regimes more than anything else - ESPECIALLY the theocratic ones. Capitulating to or entertaining the West is nothing short of heresy and, to the Irani regime, every life sacrificed for it is worth it.

The Middle East has never needed outsiders to make it an unlivable human rights craphole. Netanyahu, the Ayatollah, the proxies - all in a long line of thugs that preceded America and will easily outlast it. And the West's naive political misjudgments only ever make it worse, if not HELP them.

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It’s funny, because I remember being accused of defending the regime in Iran when I made the exact point that region doesn’t need ANOTHER war

Dark Carnival said:

It’s funny, because I remember being accused of defending the regime in Iran when I made the exact point that region doesn’t need ANOTHER war

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And I remember being accused of defending Trump even though I've disapproved of just about everything about him. Let's not pretend EITHER of those accusations actually mean anything.

Your much greater offense was your readiness to substitute a personal anecdotal experience for actual expertise. Your subjective experience doesn't automatically make you an authority. This fallacy has basically become part of the modern Liberal playbook. Catherine Liu (an established Leftist Marxist critic herself) has critiqued this very well for years. It's an insult to both your experience and the study of politics.

But even worse is the indignity of being lectured by you about Middle Eastern suffering. As if my experience is so short on pain and misery that I need yours too. You know how Americans openly hate their country because they can't get universal healthcare and DEI? Take that, multiply it by about 10 Trillion and you've got how I feel about the ME. On a good day, I feel nothing for the ME.
The second I was BORN my country wanted me dead. I've lost family to both Iraqi and Irani terrorists. I've been religiously indoctrinated in Iraqi public schools. I've been permanently exiled from my own ancestral homeland. And those were just my short years. My entire ethnic group has been experiencing mass killings and genocides for more than 100 years. No Western moral outrage, no celebrity tweets, no nothing.
And you wanna preach to me? Please don't make me laugh. I have hundreds of horrific anecdotes of my own. And I HATE that I have to parade my misery around because YOU think that's how you win arguments.

Dark Carnival said:

I have literally no idea why you’re bringing all of this up. Your personal/family experience is yours and no one’s invalidating that. Funnily, my background and ultimately my own experience is extremely similar to everything you’ve described. Not saying it’s more or less valid, it’s mine. I’m just glad to see you’ve come to the same conclusion that the region did not need another war.

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I mean I think we can agree that NO region needs another war. But preach that to the Middle Eastern regimes first. They've been killing each other and their own people just fine on their own, without the West. Where has all this concern and outrage been for the last century? Long before Gaza, long before Israel, long before America, other religious and ethnic minorities have been enduring massacres and genocides for decades, if not centuries. But the West cares NOW because it's happening on its dime and because it can be framed through its post-colonial guilt.

And I'm saying this because that's the prevalent thinking in the West. I experienced it in New Zealand and it's much worse in America. The number of times I've had to sit in front of a clueless ignorant Westerner (White or otherwise) and listen to them explain to me about how 'helpless' the Middle East was and how it was totally fine before the evil Americans came and "ruined it" is astounding and infuriating. NZ and America have been better homes to my family and me than the Middle East will ever amount to, and I'll carry their flags before I even spit on an Iraqi flag. In fact, it was the Gulf War and its aftermath that led to the reopening of Iraq's borders after a decade of being caged in. To us, that was EXTREMELY welcome foreign intervention, whether American or otherwise. Nuance like that gets completely lost to dumbass Westerners who only know how to interpret everything through their colonial framework and are ignorant that different people have a very different relationship with the Middle East, with Islam, and with the West.

The Houthi advance is so much more significant than is being reported in the mainstream. It's not just threatening Saudi Arabia, but also cutting off another trade route.

Expect prices to escalate even further.

Saudi Arabia being in firing line is probably more than overdue. They've got away with a mountain of shit because of the historical American oil alliance.

Twitter seems to think it's about to kick off in Middle East