Mariah Carey - The Rarities OUT NOW

RaspberrySwirl said:
I HATE them both.

Let me rephrase what I said; her problem (for me) was a toxic combination of bad music and horrible whispery vocals.


Basically same problem with Madonna post-Confessions.
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I mean, it's like I was telling Sheena, you'd be in the tiny minority there. TEOM and Caution are considered amongst her best work, by fans and critics alike.
 
Loufoque said:
It's sad yet predictable that some queens are still stuck in 01, while other queens are living in the moment of being positive, celebrating a living legend and remembering #1s in 05, 08, Obsessed slaying in 09 and again in 19 on TikTok, #Beautiful slaying the Billboard Top 15, scoring a #1 in her third and fourth decade and becoming a meme sensation.
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So entirely what I said then :D
 
There's no need to perform a post-mortem on Mariah's commercial fortunes. She owned one decade, slipped in the next (but still had the literal biggest hit of that decade in the US), and is now selling as many albums as you could expect from a diva of her age. She has critical acclaim, she sells tour tickets, she has an evergreen Christmas smash, she has public goodwill again. Her career took its natural course, there's no escaping these things.
 
Is TEOM that critically acclaimed? Don’t get me wrong, I really like it too and commercially it did the business, but I don’t remember the reviews being all conquering.

And as I said elsewhere, I accept I’m in the minority with Caution but I still maintain it got good reviews only by virtue of being better than the DROSS she put out on the albums that preceded it...
 
Jark said:
There's no need to perform a post-mortem on Mariah's commercial fortunes. She owned one decade, slipped in the next (but still had the literal biggest hit of that decade in the US), and is now selling as many albums as you could expect from a diva of her age. Her career took its natural course, there's no escaping these things.
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But to jump off a cliff like she did is, whilst not unheard of, unusual. Janet did the same thing, of course, but had nipplegate to thank for that. Mariah has Loverboy. That’s my point.
 
It’s awful how pop artists are pressured to perfome well. The timespan between Glitter and TEOM was only 3-4 years. Back then it felt like eternity, but it’s nothing in a career that has lasted 3 decades.
 
Yeah in retrospect she has had the classic Diva narrative. Rise to stardom, breakdown, comeback and the happily ever after.
 
SDF said:
I think to come back from Glitter like she did, and in a very big way, is absolutely testament to her star power

Janet never recovered
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To say that Janet doesn’t have star power like Mariah does? Cause that’s bollocks if that was your point.

But Janet not recovering was because she was cancelled, which was very different to Mariah. Before we even knew cancelling was a thing.
 
KindaCool said:
I mean she practically has a monopoly on the Christmas/Holiday tour 'market'. It's basically untouched by any other big artist.
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well unlike Celine and/or Janet et al, Mariah does visit 2nd and 3rd world countries (and NOT with a Xmas tour thanks) :disco: so she's a winner in my books.

Ok so Celine did play here, ONCE, about 11 years ago.
 
I dunno about MUST, but it certainly does as a hero-like quality.

Like, Beyonce didn't really have a 'breakdown' and she's pretty much 'legend' status.
 
Beyonce has taken great steps to solidify her untouchable status and has probably guaranteed that she'll never have a "flop" to come back from. and she's positioned herself as being above the entire scene by moving into the role of cultural tastemaker and serious visual artist at the same time, so even if she does flop it won't hurt her.

but for me it has created a distance which makes it difficult to get excited about her. everything is about her status. it's cold.
 
I think she's done really well using her flaws to her advantage. She has most boring personality ever and gives the worst interviews, but by restricting those things she's turned them into that "unattainable" quality.

Despite the hype though, her sales and streaming figures don't even come close to competing with giants like Taylor or Adele. I find her overall gimmicky.
 
Jark said:
Beyonce has taken great steps to solidify her untouchable status and has probably guaranteed that she'll never have a "flop" to come back from. and she's positioned herself as being above the entire scene by moving into the role of cultural tastemaker and serious visual artist at the same time, so even if she does flop it won't hurt her.

but for me it has created a distance which makes it difficult to get excited about her. everything is about her status. it's cold.
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YES! I completely agree! I’ve always felt her oddly robotic. Even when Solange attacked Jay Z in the lift, she just stood there in the corner doing absolutely nothing.
 
Jark said:
but for me it has created a distance which makes it difficult to get excited about her. everything is about her status. it's cold.
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I can see this, but it's just old school untouchable Hollywood glamour. Madonna employed the same thing a lot, albeit with a lot more MOUTH and GOB. It's just very different to the 2020 ways of doing things.
 
Janet’s problem was that she apologised for Nipplegate instead of just meeting it head on initially.

I remember thinking that ‘Sex’ might irreparably damage Madonna’s career, some media tried to go down that line, but she owned it and brazened it out. As if she would have done anything else.
 
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Did Sinead O'Connor ever apologize for the picture ripping thing?
 
Sheena said:
I can see this, but it's just old school untouchable Hollywood glamour. Madonna employed the same thing a lot, albeit with a lot more MOUTH and GOB. It's just very different to the 2020 ways of doing things.
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I think there are a lot of artists I would LIKE to be MORE untouchable/old school in that way - only a few have really benefited from breaking it down (Celine, Mariah, certainly not Madonna). It's just that Bey really isn't INTERESTING as a person so it can feel quite posturing/calculated/exhausting to me.
 
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BoysForSeles said:
Janet’s problem was that she apologised for Nipplegate instead of just meeting it head on initially.

I remember thinking that ‘Sex’ might irreparably damage Madonna’s career, some media tried to go down that line, but she owned it and brazened it out. As if she would have done anything else.
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She came out years after and said she massively regretted apologising didn't she? You're right I feel if she hadn't things would have been A LOT different. Although when the biggest sports giants are suing you/want sponsorship deals refunded...its no surprise Janet was forced to apologise. Nipplegate might need a 2020 thread looking back on it. America's reaction to it was rather fascinating and baffling.

Lest we forget that YOUTUBE is here because of that superbowl performance :D

In terms of Mariah, yeah I agree Loverboy was ridiculously bad (we do have no choice to stan though, 10/10) but I've always thought releasing Bye Bye was the biggest misstep of her career.
 
I still don’t understand how nipplegate was even allowed to be that much of a scandal. It’s not like bare breasts never had been shown on tv before or like it happened in Saudi Arabia. The US really is such a strange country in that sense.
 
I agree. I'm pretty sure it was only aired for less than a second too! I think it was a combination of American ultra conservatives turning it into a scandal, the fact she was a Jackson and black.
 
I mean Lil Kim was doing WAY worse and WAY EARLIER.

Maybe it was just that it was the Superbowl
 
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KindaCool said:
I mean Lil Kim was doing WAY worse and WAR EARLIER.

Maybe it was just that it was the Superbowl
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Yeah it being the "biggest" sporting event in the world definitely came into play. There is A LOT of cash involved in sports and I'm pretty sure over 2.5 million people complained about it. I don't think it was just about Janet in the end. I mean M.I.A. had a lawsuit for 16.5 million for sticking up a finger in the Madonna performance. It really speaks VOLUMES about America.

The whole thing is completely backwards. Sex and the City had just ended in America before Janet did what she did for christ sakes :D
 
I kind of love what Beyoncé has done. I found her largely bland as fuck in Destiny's Child and the early solo years but retreating from the celebrity merry go round and being in total control of her message has done wonders for her FEMININE MYSTIQUE

Sure, I'd love a few Freemasons BANGERS like the olden days, but those days are GONE (and she probably hated them anyway)
 
KindaCool said:
I mean Lil Kim was doing WAY worse and WAY EARLIER.

Maybe it was just that it was the Superbowl
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Lil'Kim was at the VMA's which it's general knowledge it was aimed at older teens/adults besides having a disclaimer and a rating for TV. The SuperBowl's audience is a totally differnt boat: US conservatists not to mention straight males who know anything about mainstream pop music and by then it was widely known that the SB HalfTime show became a "family moment" meaning that the wives that usually find Football boring might pop in to watch who's performing and not to mention their kids, so seeing a tit at some show of this nature was SCANDALOUS!
 
What straight American male had not seen Janet and her boobs prior to 2004? It’s just weird.
 
Nipplegate was ridiculous. I never understand the furore even back then. America is so inconsistent with what it chooses to be enraged about. She became a scapegoat for a larger conservative / evangelical campaign. America can be so judge-jury-and-executioner about these things. Her career never really recovered in the same way George Michael’s didn’t. And he tried to give a blowjob to a cop in a public toilet. But then I suppose he wasn’t black, or a women, so.
 
I honestly thought her career had just dipped because its undeniable the music quality did but she really was CANCELLED before it was thing. I've been on a Wikipedia trip about it all and she was blackballed by MTV, Viacom, cancelled from the Grammys and a Disney venture. The CEO of the company who said she wasn't "repentant" enough was revealed to be a sexual predator in 2018 with accusations from over 20 women.


JANFT won in the end :disco:
 
And some lambs are surmising that it could mean...

10/2 - The Rarities, Mariah Carey reissue
10/9 - Emotions LP
10/16 - Music Box LP
10/23 - Daydream LP
10/30 - Butterfly LP
11/6 - Rainbow LP
 
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