S13 E12: Nice Girls Roast

Barnacle said:
Are we though? She and Olivia rank bottom for me at the minute and Symone ranks top. I just don't think she merits the onslaught. And I don't think disliking her aura is enough to justify it.
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That’s fine but to imply that some of us dislike her because of her race is demeaning.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Oh. My. God. What on earth was Utica doing? Though "Bitch you're the one bombing" is now my favourite thing ever said on Drag Race.

This is the first week that I think Kandy was actually judged fairly, and I can see why she won.
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The best/worst part was the bizarre sequence when she just spent five minutes calling Michelle and Loni Love fat after the run through had actually ended and they'd essentially told her to go. :D
 
COB said:
Yes! This is what I meant with the Sharon Osbourne reference - people are far too ready to start screeching the second they might be possibly asked to examine themselves and their biases, which we ALL FUCKING HAVE.
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I’m here always ready to screetch, especially when someone is trying to tell me that my opinion is based on racism.
 
Re: the Sharon Osbourne thing. I was using it as a recent example of someone being more upset at being CALLED racist than at racism itself, or appearing that way. I probably could and should have used a less contentious example, so I'd like to apologise for that.
 
COB said:
Re: the Sharon Osbourne thing. I was using it as a recent example of someone being more upset at being CALLED racist than at racism itself, or appearing that way. I probably could and should have used a less contentious example, so I'd like to apologise for that.
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Thank you. Believe me, the last thing I want is for us to start bickering again. But that did come across as a very pointed and holier than thou jab. It's very easy to shut somebody down by accusing them of 'screeching' or outright implying that they're racist. I don't feel like I did that to you in this thread.

I'm sorry if it came across as though I'm not able or willing to consider that there might be an element of racist bias in how I feel about Kandy, because I've honestly thought about it a lot. And I really don't dislike her as a queen! It's the show's handling of her that I take issue with.

Anyway, this is in danger of going around in circles, so I'm going to leave it at that.
 
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COB said:
Re: the Sharon Osbourne thing. I was using it as a recent example of someone being more upset at being CALLED racist than at racism itself, or appearing that way. I probably could and should have used a less contentious example, so I'd like to apologise for that.
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No apologies needed. There is no denying in racism being part of it on a ”global” level, but in an internal discussion on Moopy, I doubt it is a thing.
 
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Barnacle said:
Firstly, it wasn't a personal attack on you. But do you not think that there might be some connection to her race and background when one of the most common slights on her seems to be that she has bad enunciation and has a particular way of speaking?
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You did imply that there was an element of racism due to people not liking Kandy. I personally find her attitude off putting and that has made me dislike her, that is nothing to do with her bad enunciation, there’s been plenty of competitors over the past seasons that have had bad enunciation but what they also have is a warmth that endears them to the viewers which is something that unfortunately Kandy lacks,
 
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And before you come for me, ”racially fluid” is said in jest.
 
Silly Moo said:
You did imply that there was an element of racism due to people not liking Kandy. I personally find her attitude off putting and that has made me dislike her, that is nothing to do with her bad enunciation, there’s been plenty of competitors over the past seasons that have had bad enunciation but what they also have is a warmth that endears them to the viewers which is something that unfortunately Kandy lacks,
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I did, but I said as much. I don't think Moopy is immune to being criticised for it. I think it's perfectly fine to suggest racial bias without attacking people; it doesn't mean I'm calling equating them to the worst of the worst.

And I repeat that this is coming from a white Irish person who is loaded with their own bias. It's just a thought.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
I appologize for confusing you all regarding my race. I’m racially fluid and unlike our Bev, I don’t only dislike white people, but all categories of humans as long as they’re responsible for their behaviour.
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Er, I'll have you know, I have confirmed on MANY occasion my hatred for all peoples. It might not be an equal LEVEL of hatred, but rest assured, it's HATRED. :)
 
Beverley said:
Er, I'll have you know, I have confirmed on MANY occasion my hatred for all peoples. It might not be an equal LEVEL of hatred, but rest assured, it's HATRED. :)
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Fair enough, your hatred towards me is well documented.
 
Kandy was fantastic. Definitely the winner.

I'm glad Michelle gave Symone credit for how she handled her "bombing" as they called it. And I just loved getting more of her wonderful nuances out of her from the lip sync (I've actually never heard that song the whole way through:))

The episode completely dominated by Utica. I think we got everything we possibly could from her. The fake tears at the beginning, cut to seconds later asking what everyone thought of her lip sync set the tone wonderfully.

Alyssa was never actually given a pass, she was often critiqued hard, thrown under the Coco double decker bus, and often bottomed, but by All Stars in particular was so locked in her own world that not even an elimination (or 2) could yank her out of it. She was also a discreet or not so discreet antagonist, which is probably the biggest thing she did get away with.
 
Barnacle said:
I did, but I said as much. I don't think Moopy is immune to being criticised for it. I think it's perfectly fine to suggest racial bias without attacking people; it doesn't mean I'm calling equating them to the worst of the worst.

And I repeat that this is coming from a white Irish person who is loaded with their own bias. It's just a thought.
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I just don’t like where society is heading in which if you criticise someone from a minority it’s because of some prejudice you hold. That person could be a middle class white male but if they behaved like the dickhead I had an issue with then I’d still dislike them exactly the same. Sometimes it is possible to dislike someone from a minority based on who that person is and not due to any discriminatory undertones.
 
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Silly Moo said:
I just don’t like where society is heading in which if you criticise someone from a minority it’s because of some prejudice you hold. That person could be a middle class white male but if they behaved like the dickhead I had an issue with then I’d still dislike them exactly the same. Sometimes it is possible to dislike someone from a minority based on who that person is and not due to any discriminatory undertones.
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I agree in part, I just don't think it's applicable to Kandy. She hasn't done anything that offensive and the other queens all seem to love her.

If she had acted like Utica in this episode she'd have been mauled and torn apart. Instead Utica is cute and quirky and everyone forgives her for apologising (which they should, but the point remains).
 
And I don't understand why it's not fair to say that when people are jumping on Kandy for the way she speaks and the words she uses that there might be bias.

But I've said that already and like VoR said I think we're going round in circles.
 
Barnacle said:
I agree in part, I just don't think it's applicable to Kandy. She hasn't done anything that offensive and the other queens all seem to love her.
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They’re afraid/intimidated of/by her.
 
There are definitely elements of racism and classism involved in the Kandy hatred online. She’s one of my least favourites this season but the hatred she’s getting is disproportionate. Obviously the favouritism she’s been getting hasn’t done her any, um favours. But I definitely agree she hasn’t been that vile to anyone since the Tamisha incident really?
 
Beverley said:
What makes it aggressive when she does it versus the queens that say and do the exact same thing and are perceived to have C.U.N.T? :side-eye:
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Give us some examples.

But before you do, I’d want you to remember that at LEAST 50% of all those queens we love and applaud are dark skinned and sometimes also fat and stupid.

You just choose to see it when it fits your theory.
 
RaspberrySwirl said:
Give us some examples.

But before you do, I’d want you to remember that at LEAST 50% of all those queens we love and applaud are dark skinned and sometimes also fat and stupid.

You just choose to see it when it fits your theory.
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*I* don't have a theory. *I* haven't said or done anything other than rip the piss out of you.
 
This episode was great! SO much to cover!

- OMG AT THAT UTICA SET! I actually HOWLED at "do manatees trigger you?" and "yeah, I have children" "you sure look like it" :D WHERE DID THIS UTICA COME FROM? What IMMEDIATE quotes for the ages!

- Gottmik absolutely deserved to win that challenge over Kandy - her set was almost SUSPICIOUSLY fantastic

- I'm in agreement with @VoR that my main issue is less with Kandy as a queen (who I'm warming to), so much as this show insisting to me that she's nailing things or that she's god's gift to comedy when she just....isn't? I wouldn't have resented her being in the top this week at all, but the really blatant producer agenda to have her in the final four for the, granted, very inspiring example she sets through her backstory and the "what do you have to say to 7 year old Kandy?" kid portraits moment leaves a sour taste. Particularly because it feels far more blatant this time than it has in any previous seasons (people may have disliked Silky, but her wins felt eminently deserved and incontestable. Ru obviously took a shine to her, but it never to me seemed like she was being judged on a basis where she could do little wrong even when she wasn't actually doing great.)

- god, WHAT a lip sync :disco: Utica's skirt! I gasped at the sheer glory of that camera angle for Symone's creeping forward strut - what an actual star

- Utica going felt written on the wall the second this week was announced as a roast, but going out to Symone (and with SUCH an iconic failed set - Loni Love heckling back! Ru just straight up telling her to fuck off!) means it feels as fair and right-timed an exit as it could do for a fan favourite. And let's be honest, the binch has a creative direction position at a fashion house with her name on it for LIFE after this season (to say nothing of an All Stars run too)

- GOD what a final 5/6 in all though. That final shot of them all charging forward in celebration during the credits like the drag Spice Girls :disco:
 
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RaspberrySwirl said:
Like how she reacted with Tamisha? When she had a rant at Denali?
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BESIDES TAMISHA. So that’s only one incident. Comparable to the go Bianca had on Dela when they were put in a similar situation. Hardly Vixen/Eureka levels of obnoxiousness.
 
Dark Carnival said:
BESIDES TAMISHA. So that’s only one incident. Comparable to the go Bianca had on Dela when they were put in a similar situation. Hardly Vixen/Eureka levels of obnoxiousness.
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But it’s nevertheless the way she comes off.
 
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