Taylor Swift - The Life of a Showgirl (12th album)

Visit Cardiff said:
JESUS CHRIST
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Real Housewives Of Orange County Discussion GIF
 
Suedehead said:
Criticism is fine, but my point is that framing it within the 'Taylor Swift hates other women' context that seems to be pervasive in this thread is problematic.
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Could you not say it's sexist that Taylor Swift has written a bunch of songs framing other women as high school mean girls or, in the case of Charli xcx, comparing her to a dog? :D
 
GNL said:
Could you not say it's sexist that Taylor Swift has written a bunch of songs framing other women as high school mean girls or, in the case of Charli xcx, comparing her to a dog? :D
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Have you compared these to the songs she's written about men at all?
 
Taylor seems to be stuck in a high school mindset - there's plenty of evidence for this and it's hardly a surprise given that she's been famous ever since - so maybe it's also no surprise that her songs dissing other women also reduce them to mean girls. she's good at writing for young girl characters (see folklore) and sometimes it feels like she has a better understanding of the interior worlds of children than of adults. again, maybe not a surprise, but a bit sad.

Charli seems like a much more well adjusted human being and I'm not sure she'll bother responding to this other than a quick lol on Instagram.
 
GNL said:
Could you not say it's sexist that Taylor Swift has written a bunch of songs framing other women as high school mean girls or, in the case of Charli xcx, comparing her to a dog? :D
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You could.

But I personally wouldn't because she hasn't just written songs about women. Again, this is framing it as if Taylor Swift only writes diss songs about women and we all know that's not true. She writes about her life and people in it, being ex-boyfriends, current boyfriends, records company execs, her mother, father, her friends and yes, other women peers (or men) that she does not necessarily agree with. It's not sexist to do that.
It's sexist if she only ever writes diss songs about other women. And she doesn't do that.
 
octophone said:
Have you compared these to the songs she's written about men at all?
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For what it's worth I'm just trying to dig into this double standard where Taylor Swift, global superstar, can write critically about other women, but Laura Snapes, journalist, can't!
 
Jark said:
Taylor seems to be stuck in a high school mindset - there's plenty of evidence for this and it's hardly a surprise given that she's been famous ever since - so maybe it's also no surprise that her songs dissing other women also reduce them to mean girls. she's good at writing for young girl characters (see folklore) and sometimes it feels like she has a better understanding of the interior worlds of children than of adults. again, maybe not a surprise, but a bit sad.
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Of course, that world famous 'inner world of children' as epitomised by Ophelia's character in Hamlet.
 
Elizabeth Taylor & Opalite - yes, I’m not doing this track by track. This is more what I expect from Swift, but it’s still very poppy and easy to listen to.
 
Suedehead said:
Of course, that world famous 'inner world of children' as epitomised by Ophelia's character in Hamlet.
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referencing a character from Hamlet =/= being an emotionally mature adult woman in 2025 or being able to write as one. we know she has countless literary references to call on dear, they're all over her discography. but so what?
 
Jark said:
referencing a character from Hamlet =/= being an emotionally mature adult woman in 2025 or being able to write as one. we know she has countless literary references dear, they're all over her discography.
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That wasn't my point. And yes I only used Ophelia because it's topical. My point was that she can and does manage to inhabit worlds that are not restricted to children.

I just wanted a quick, catty response to your post about her having the intellectual maturity of a child and teenager; which again is simply not true.

And to think that I birthed you from my gay womb, Jark. Let's elevate the discourse DAHLIN!
 
There's a multitude of things that are correct when it comes to Taylor Swift. Lyrics veering from incredibly smart to incredibly cringe, emotional range fluctuating between bitter 14-year-old and incredible clever (and at often reasonable, kind) businesswoman. And also that the victim is still in victim mode but has also become the tormenter. thanK you aIMee, you called. I find her fascinating but who she is is probably an incredibly warped version of herself after the last 15 years.

Jark said:
Taylor seems to be stuck in a high school mindset - there's plenty of evidence for this and it's hardly a surprise given that she's been famous ever since - so maybe it's also no surprise that her songs dissing other women also reduce them to mean girls. she's good at writing for young girl characters (see folklore) and sometimes it feels like she has a better understanding of the interior worlds of children than of adults. again, maybe not a surprise, but a bit sad.
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Annieways
I shall pop it on of a weekday morning next week whilst getting ready to see what the all important Mr Suede Response From Upstairs is (and no he's not the mad(wo)man in the attic - another literary reference for @Jark 💅)
 
What we've all learned is we can go back and listen to the JADE album without feeling like we're missing out on a TS triumph 💞
 
Suedehead said:
She writes about her life and people in it, being ex-boyfriends, current boyfriends, records company execs, her mother, father, her friends and yes, other women peers (or men) that she does not necessarily agree with.
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It's all just all OH SO VERY BORING.
 
Why any man would ever go out with her, you'll just end up in her TERRIBLE TEEN POETRY (thanks Jark, nailed it).
 
The HYSTERICS.

I thought the first three tracks were good. The Fate of Ophelia and Opalite being the best ones. They definitely have that Max Martin polish and earworm hooks and melodies. After that though...*

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*with a few exceptions
 
I’m four tracks in and really like it :o

Ophelia and Opalite are the highlights so far.
 
I enjoyed the first listen. it’s feeling more midnights with a tinge of reputation for me, than lover. Eldest Daughter sounds the most like her first albums than anything else she’s done recently. I agree that the showgirl theme seems at odds with the actual music, but whatever. going to listen again before I do a preliminary rate.

Also, Wood surely will belatedly add a credit to Jackson 5 “I Want You Back” sooner than later? It’s more obvious than the George Michael one
 
I feel like everyone who said Jack Antonoff was stinking up her albums while he was creating incredible stuff with St. Vincent, Sabrina et al owes him an APOLOGY if this is what Taylor reduces Max Martin too. She's the problem! It's her!
 
Oh, it turns out the "stocking problems" thing was genuine. I was told when I went to avail myself that the album arrived at their door first thing, followed about 2 hours later by a box of the limited edition CDs.
 
All in all, I will take 'The Fate of Ophelia' (c'mon Spark notes!), 'Ruin the Friendship' and 'Honey' and run.
 
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