The War in Ukraine (2 Viewers)

This will be interesting if correct, not sure what the pretext for it will be.

 
Heppje said:
Take it from me, you would be horrified to discover just how many of these supposed "westernised" Russians approve of what is happening. A lot have a visceral hatred of Ukraine because that is how they have been brought up to think.

But yes. There are a ton of honest Russians who will now bear the burden that Germans did after the war for generations to come.
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Oh I can quite believe there are a fair few that agree with what's going on, which disgusts me.

I remember our Russian tour guide in St Petersburg telling us how Russians are brainwashed into loving Putin and believing everything he does is for the good of the people. But she said the younger generation who had more access to the internet were starting to see the truth.

It also shocked me that a lot of their tv was controlled by the government to be pro Putin and anti the west.
 
Yes. This is when I knew Russia was going to be trouble. When Putin came to power, he seized media outlet after media outlet using spurious tax fraud charges to close them down and force a sale/take over by one of his cronies. There are precious few independent ones left. Moscow News is one but is frequently muzzled.

This is what dictators do - control the media and thereby the narrative. The same happened in Donbass and Crimea. Ukrainian TV was shut off and the Ukraine=nazi line peddled incessantly. State TV frequently highlights supposed corruption/incompetence going on in Ukraine, and, of course, the "genocide" in and around Donetsk, all the while saying nothing of the constant shelling and breaking of ceasefires by the drunken DNR and LNR goons. You all saw what happened when that Dutch plane was downed.

Vilify Ukraine and the west. Rinse, lather, repeat and quell any dissent immediately and severely. It's a wonder any normal Russians can thrive in that poisonous environment.
 
Heppje said:
Take it from me, you would be horrified to discover just how many of these supposed "westernised" Russians approve of what is happening. A lot have a visceral hatred of Ukraine because that is how they have been brought up to think.

But yes. There are a ton of honest Russians who will now bear the burden that Germans did after the war for generations to come.
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In the program I was watching a little earlier, they also took in phone calls from people of Russian descent who live in the breakaway areas. They were really critical of the invasion saying it was unasked for and they've never wanted this either. I think the disapproval among the general public in Russia must be massive.
 
Heppje said:
Yes. This is when I knew Russia was going to be trouble. When Putin came to power, he seized media outlet after media outlet using spurious tax fraud charges to close them down and force a sale/take over by one of his cronies. There are precious few independent ones left. Moscow News is one but is frequently muzzled.

This is what dictators do - control the media and thereby the narrative. The same happened in Donbass and Crimea. Ukrainian TV was shut off and the Ukraine=nazi line peddled incessantly. State TV frequently highlights supposed corruption/incompetence going on in Ukraine, and, of course, the "genocide" in and around Donetsk, all the while saying nothing of the constant shelling and breaking of ceasefires by the drunken DNR and LNR goons. You all saw what happened when that Dutch plane was downed.

Vilify Ukraine and the west. Rinse, lather, repeat and quell any dissent immediately and severely. It's a wonder any normal Russians can thrive in that poisonous environment.
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It actually shocks me that countries have to live like this. I know people complain about the UK, but we are so lucky compared to some.
 
Queen of the Bay said:
In the program I was watching a little earlier, they also took in phone calls from people of Russian descent who live in the breakaway areas. They were really critical of the invasion saying it was unasked for and they've never wanted this either. I think the disapproval among the general public in Russia must be massive.
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I've looked online. There are quite a few Ukrainian celebrities who have been caught up in the bombing and have posted on social media. The comments from ordinary Russians and those from the Donbass who bothered to look in don't give me as much hope as you seem to have.

A lot of Russians who aren't fans of Putin at all are just indifferent. It is just another conflict in some far flung place like Libya or Syria and doesn't (or didn't, rather) impact on their daily lives. They aren't really bothered one way or the other. They just block anyone who mentions the war on their feeds and say they don't have time to deal with idiots.
 
My baby is starting to look a bit worried but still defiant. I am worried :(


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Makes sense from a strategic point of view and Russia did warn it was going to do that. If the studios don't go under, Kyivans can still get TV streamed via the internet unless Russia can block Musk's satellite feeds.
 
Heppje said:
Makes sense from a strategic point of view and Russia did warn it was going to do that. If the studios don't go under, Kyivans can still get TV streamed via the internet unless Russia can block Musk's satellite feeds.
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It does, but it's so very old school you can't help but wonder what world they live in.
 
Queen of the Bay said:
It does, but it's so very old school you can't help but wonder what world they live in.
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Everything in Russia seems to be old school and creaking, including its war tactics. That 40 mile convoy is meant to surround and block Kyiv. No way in or out. Just wondering where those planes are that were coming in from the EU. A couple of forays and they could have stopped this convoy in its tracks.
 
Heppje said:
Take it from me, you would be horrified to discover just how many of these supposed "westernised" Russians approve of what is happening. A lot have a visceral hatred of Ukraine because that is how they have been brought up to think.
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There is truth in this. I have witnessed what we would call "Russian chauvinism" from Russian gays living in the West in regards to Ukraine, the Donbass and Crimea over the last 8 years. BUT I do feel that this is different. This is the first time I have heard people who've largely stayed silent about Putin (well-to-do Moscow types, who would rather keep their head down) say that 1. this has gone too far; 2. Putin is mad; 3. Russia is about to go down the toilet.

Yes, Putin has support from the brainwashed at home. But let the sanctions and the ruble do their work. It will ebb away. I just pray it's fast enough to save Ukraine.
 
I read an interview this morning about business owners being fucking furious that they've endured so much shit, being Russian and all, and just as they felt things were picking up Putin does this.

Lets hope that anger manifests into something meaningful fast, as I think the mad cunt is really going to ramp up in the next few days.
 
big ron said:
I read an interview this morning about business owners being fucking furious that they've endured so much shit, being Russian and all, and just as they felt things were picking up Putin does this.

Lets hope that anger manifests into something meaningful fast, as I think the mad cunt is really going to ramp up in the next few days.
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I was watching several analysts saying the same thing tonight, that the battles will be transferred inside the cities very soon and that it'll get much much worse and that any serious talks will only be made after the war has a winner.
 
Ukraine's president has aired his frustration on Twitter over the missile strike on the Babyn Yar Holocaust Memorial Centre in Kyiv.

It is built on Europe's largest mass grave of the Holocaust, where Nazi death squads killed more than 33,000 Jewish people in the space of just two days in 1941.

Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted on Tuesday, saying: "What is the point of saying 'never again' for 80 years, if the world stays silent when a bomb drops on the same site of Babyn Yar? At least five killed. History repeating."

BBC News
 
The lady having a shout at Johnson is a tough watch. She's on the same page as a Polish friend of mine, that their country is sick of being thrown under the bus when wars come and that NATO should step up and engage.

But it's an extremely dangerous prospect and I can understand why he's saying no. Who fancies calling Putin's bluff on the thinly veiled threat of nuclear warfare?

But on the other side of the coin, we have to live with knowing that other countries are getting thrown under that proverbial bus to save the world. Awful.
 
Cloud said:
The lady having a shout at Johnson is a tough watch. She's on the same page as a Polish friend of mine, that their country is sick of being thrown under the bus when wars come and that NATO should step up and engage.

But it's an extremely dangerous prospect and I can understand why he's saying no. Who fancies calling Putin's bluff on the thinly veiled threat of nuclear warfare?

But on the other side of the coin, we have to live with knowing that other countries are getting thrown under that proverbial bus to save the world. Awful.
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Agreed - it’s very difficult and a big part of me thinks ‘sod it’ - enforce a NFZ and see what happens but, as Johnson knows, what happens is a war in Europe as you have to defend that NFZ.
 
lolly said:
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A massive prick with form for the similar.

My folks live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country and yesterday I dropped into the village coffee morning to cart my mother away (:D) and there was nothing but a view that we should accept as many refugees as we can - this in a village which probably voted 75% Tory. People like Leigh are out of step with the country.
 
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