Coronavirus (2 Viewers)

[lolly]

 

[lolly]

On a personal level (as someone who uses public transport to get to work) the fact that I will be insisting clients wear masks in surgery, and will be expected to wear one myself, but then can get on a bus where nobody has to bother seems farcical.

And did I read somewhere that the end of self isolation is being mooted as well?

 

[octophone]

I don't think I'll ever go back to NOT wearing a mask on public transport. I liked not having 2 or 3 colds over winter and I'm in no hurry to return to that.

 

[Pingu]

I’m glad to see that it being challenged and hopefully that pressure keeps up over the course of the week.

Making it a matter of our own personal judgement makes no sense when you consider that the messaging around masks has been that they aren’t for your own protection, but for everybody else’s.

Shall we make speed limits discretionary too while we’re at it?

 

[lolly]

Around these parts (and I very much doubt it's unusual, outside of London anyway), I'd say pensioners use public transport disproportionately more.

 

[Madison]

It hadn’t occurred to me they were even considering removing the mask mandate for public transport. Insane.

Hopefully TfL will be able to keep it as a condition of travel.

 

[win_the_game]

Of course the government will scrap it because they take advice from no one. Then they’ll bring the restrictions back 1-2 weeks later.

 

[VoR]

My impression is that this is a way of looking as though you’re doing something without actually doing anything at all. The country is already pretty sharply divided into pro and anti-mask. This will win points with the antis, while most pro- mask people will continue to wear them regardless.

 

[D5K]

The issue with masks is that they're about protecting other people, not yourself. So all of us considerate people can wear them as much as we want, but they won't protect us from those who decide not to.

 

[D5K]

Hopefully TfL will be able to keep it as a condition of travel.

I'm sure the government would block that as a condition of their bailout.

 

[Pingu]

It’s the portion of the population who are indifferent about or mildly inconvenienced by masks but wear them because they have to and don’t hugely mind (surely the majority of us?) who I’d be concerned about.

 

[Lucille]

Even if TFL continued insisting on mask use there’s no way they could enforce it.

 

[Kate]

They don’t enforce it anyway!

 

[VoR]

They don’t enforce it anyway!

Exactly. I’m not sure how many ‘casual’ mask wearers there really are at this point. You either believe the science or you don’t.

 

[dmlaw]

The government have pretty clearly decided that anyone who doesn't have immunity from vaccination can just fend for themselves now. I would mind, but if you were actively trying to develop a variant which could get round the vaccines, this is how you would do it.

 

[Cloud]

Although I'm fairly sure what I've been suffering is dog allergy, even now 12 hours after leaving I have a lingering sniffle and sore throat and general "yuk" feeling. Much better than when I was there, but it's definitely not gone.

Thing is the lateral flow test is negative, and the requirements for getting a PCR test are outdated and still ask for the symptoms that unvaccinated people had against OG and Alpha. It's changed since. I think there's still a chance it's a coincidence and that I do have covid but am not infectious to others due to having the first jab so may never know.

 

[Iguana]

Exactly. I’m not sure how many ‘casual’ mask wearers there really are at this point. You either believe the science or you don’t.

I'm an avid mask fan but what actually IS the science? I've never seen anything conclusive about masks, only that wearing them surely must help. But what is the reduction in transmission as a result of wearing them, does anyone know?

 

[Rita]

The government are putting it in the hands of the public, so when shit does hit the fan again (which I am pretty confident it will) it is all OUR OWN FAULTS.

 

[Mats]

I'm an avid mask fan but what actually IS the science? I've never seen anything conclusive about masks, only that wearing them surely must help. But what is the reduction in transmission as a result of wearing them, does anyone know?

I'd like to know too because I'm still wearing a mask on public transport and in crowded indoors settings like malls, despite masks not being mandatory anymore (I was even told by staff in a hospital ward with very old bed-ridden patients that I could take it off - of all places!)

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Basically, reducing the distance that droplets from you breathing, speaking, and coughing travel.

What evidence do we have that wearing a mask is effective in preventing COVID-19?
There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks.

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. “The most important thing are the epidemiologic data,” said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called “experiments of nature.”

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.

Do masks protect the people wearing them or the people around them?
“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong.

Masks may be more effective as a “source control” because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.

Another factor to remember, noted Rutherford, is that you could still catch the virus through the membranes in your eyes, a risk that masking does not eliminate.

How many people need to wear masks to reduce community transmission?
“What you want is 100 percent of people to wear masks, but you’ll settle for 80 percent,” said Rutherford. In one simulation, researchers predicted that 80 percent of the population wearing masks would do more to reduce COVID-19 spread than a strict lockdown.

The latest forecast from the Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation suggests that 33,000 deaths could be avoided by October 1 if 95 percent of people wore masks in public.

Even if you live in a community where few people wear masks, you would still reduce your own chances of catching the virus by wearing one, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford.

Does the type of mask matter?
Studies have compared various mask materials, but for the general public, the most important consideration may be comfort. The best mask is one you can wear comfortably and consistently, said Chin-Hong. N95 respirators are only necessary in medical situations such as intubation. Surgical masks are generally more protective than cloth masks, and some people find them lighter and more comfortable to wear.

The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”

However, both Rutherford and Chin-Hong cautioned against N95 masks with valves (commonly used in construction to prevent the inhalation of dust) because they do not protect those around you. These one-way valves close when the wearer breathes in, but open when the wearer breathes out, allowing unfiltered air and droplets to escape. Chin-Hong said that anyone wearing a valved mask would need to wear a surgical or cloth mask over it. "Alternatively, just wear a non-valved mask," he said.

San Francisco has specified that masks with valves do not comply with the city's face covering order.

If we’re practicing social distancing, do we still need to wear masks?
A mnemonic that Chin-Hong likes is the “Three W’s to ward off COVID-19:” wearing a mask, washing your hands, and watching your distance.

“But of the three, the most important thing is wearing a mask,” he said. Compared to wearing a mask, cleaning your iPhone or wiping down your groceries are “just distractors.” There’s little evidence that fomites (contaminated surfaces) are a major source of transmission, whereas there is a lot of evidence of transmission through inhaled droplets, said Chin-Hong.

“You should always wear masks and socially distance,” said Rutherford. “I would be hesitant to try to parse it apart. But, yes, I think mask wearing is more important

Archive: Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

 

[Rita]

I have mentioned on here a few times about an elderly farmer that lives up the top of the hill behind us and he looks after his wife who has dementia. He has caught covid and is in intensive care, and his wife has been taken in to respite at a home as she couldn’t live herself. The town closest to us is apparently absolutely riddled with it so I assume he must have caught it going to the supermarket, or a shop in town as they don’t go anywhere else.

He passed away in the early hours of this morning. I can’t stop thinking about his poor wife now left in the old folks home.

 

[Iguana]

Basically, reducing the distance that droplets from you breathing, speaking, and coughing travel.

Gosh that is absolutely awful syntax

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Gosh that is absolutely awful syntax

Or, it's your awful reading comprehension

 

[Iguana]

But also thank you (I guess)

 

[COB]

He passed away in the early hours of this morning. I can’t stop thinking about his poor wife now left in the old folks home.

So sorry to hear this Rita

 

[Iguana]

He passed away in the early hours of this morning. I can’t stop thinking about his poor wife now left in the old folks home.

Oh no Sorry to hear this

 

[Marina Salty]

But what is the reduction in transmission as a result of wearing them, does anyone know?

Not exactly a study on reduction but there was a table circulating around with the chances of contracting it in various mask non mask scenarios, I'll try to find it.

 

[Star]

He passed away in the early hours of this morning. I can’t stop thinking about his poor wife now left in the old folks home.

So sorry to hear this
Can't help but think how many more will we lose like this with these new changes being bought in? Yes the double vaccinated are more safe, but people are still dying out there, we should be doing all we can to keep safe. Not opening the floodgates by removing every single restriction.

 

[Apoca]

I'm an avid mask fan but what actually IS the science? I've never seen anything conclusive about masks, only that wearing them surely must help. But what is the reduction in transmission as a result of wearing them, does anyone know?

If you're wearing an FFP2 mask, it filters 95% of the particles. So that really does provide quite a bit of protection, much more than the average medical masks which really is more designed so that you don't pass anything on. Numbers for medical masks are a little all over the place, depending on different papers. (ranging from 40% to 65%, I believe)

 

[Star]

I'm an avid mask fan but what actually IS the science? I've never seen anything conclusive about masks, only that wearing them surely must help. But what is the reduction in transmission as a result of wearing them, does anyone know?

There definitely is a real science behind it, trouble is that it really only works well if the infected person is wearing a mask. So as they say you really are wearing a mask to protect others. I've seen similar figures to this in an article posted in the Guardian I think it was;

 

[jivafox]

I look fucking beautiful in a mask because you can see my eyes and nothing else and that's good enough for ME.

 

[Indie]

There definitely is a real science behind it, trouble is that it really only works well if the infected person is wearing a mask. So as they say you really are wearing a mask to protect others. I've seen similar figures to this in an article posted in the Guardian I think it was;

View attachment 3251

I do think it's hilarious when the government talk about "personal choice". People take personal choice as worrying about their own risk, but that's not what masks are for. They're for other people's.

 

[Iguana]

There definitely is a real science behind it, trouble is that it really only works well if the infected person is wearing a mask. So as they say you really are wearing a mask to protect others. I've seen similar figures to this in an article posted in the Guardian I think it was;

View attachment 3251

Thank you! This very much brings it home!

 

[Iguana]

It is a little bit like when @win_the_game had to explain the offside rule to @Tisch with a cartoon diagram for kids

 

[win_the_game]

Tbh I'm still not sure if @Tisch understands the offside rule.

 

[Marina Salty]

I've found the table, it's on page 11 of this document (it lists as its sources CDC Guidelines: «Improve the Fit and Filtration», «Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure 2021», «Improve How Your Mask Protects You», «Your Guide to Masks). The scenarios were these:

One use surgical mask - loose fit
Covid carrier	Healthy individual	Protection percentage
No mask	Mask	7,50%
Mask	No Mask	41,30%
Mask	Mask	84,30%
One use surgical mask - tight fit
No mask	Mask	64,50%
Mask	No Mask	62,90%
Mask	Mask	95,90%

 

[octophone]

He passed away in the early hours of this morning. I can’t stop thinking about his poor wife now left in the old folks home.

Oh no. That's so sad.

 

[Tetris-Rock]

Although I'm fairly sure what I've been suffering is dog allergy, even now 12 hours after leaving I have a lingering sniffle and sore throat and general "yuk" feeling. Much better than when I was there, but it's definitely not gone.

Thing is the lateral flow test is negative, and the requirements for getting a PCR test are outdated and still ask for the symptoms that unvaccinated people had against OG and Alpha. It's changed since. I think there's still a chance it's a coincidence and that I do have covid but am not infectious to others due to having the first jab so may never know.

If you are concerned, literally just lie about symptoms and book a test. I’ve done it.

I don’t feel guilty about doing so as the testing centre near me almost always has a fair number of appointments.

 

[lolly]

Officially out of isolation!

Is it strange that after the initial 'what a pain in the arse' and worrying about getting enough food in, I almost actually enjoyed it? On some level making my peace about staying in lifted a layer of anxiety in terms of not having to think about much, other than meal planning.

 

[Tetris-Rock]

It hadn’t occurred to me they were even considering removing the mask mandate for public transport. Insane.

Hopefully TfL will be able to keep it as a condition of travel.

I can see Sadiq maintaining the requirement but as others have said, it's not enforced and the levels of compliance are mixed as things are.