The War in Ukraine (2 Viewers)

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It rests on Russia to end this without escalation, really. Putin has surrounded himself by people loyal to his ‘cause’ and the public are subject to a propaganda machine, but Russia is haemorrhaging money and a lot of very rich Russians stand to lose a lot, so I think they’ll be where the bullet that drops Putin would eventually come from.
 
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So far I’m also against NATO involvement, as I think it will make things worse. The imposed sanctions are supposed to be tougher than ever so I’m hoping it will choke their economy and bring on a collapse very soon to make the people or the inner circle against Putin.
 
Lucille said:
Of course we fucking shouldn’t go in. They are not going to keep going and roll over Europe, they can barely take Ukraine, let alone occupy it and continue advances on other countries.
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Thats what keeps me going, their conventional forces are a HOT MESS.
 
Jack said:
Thats what keeps me going, their conventional forces are a HOT MESS.
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Are they as much of a hot mess as is being said though? Every morning I seem to wake up to more news about cities being captured. Yes it's not the total annihilation that was feared from some corners, but it's not exactly a huge shambles if that's what's happening.
 
Lucille said:
Of course we fucking shouldn’t go in. They are not going to keep going and roll over Europe, they can barely take Ukraine, let alone occupy it and continue advances on other countries.
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Agreed. But if we don't go to war (and I hope we don't) they need to keep ramping up those sanctions. Still don't think they've gone far enough.

Full airspace restriction (and no access to international waters) is a huge thing and they're going to have to do it anyway if he keeps advancing. So just fucking do it now before more are killed. Doing it half arsed doesn't achieve anything.
 
There was an expert (there are so many of them) in the newspaper warning about this talk of Russian army not being effective enough, saying that it could give us false sense of security.
 
Yeah perhaps, I was more thinking that 40 mile long queue of equipment that appears to have in many circumstances run out of fuel, troops with no food, and even causing their own traffic jam. It doesn't exactly shout out well organised warfare.
 
funky said:
Full airspace restriction (and no access to international waters) is a huge thing and they're going to have to do it anyway if he keeps advancing. So just fucking do it now before more are killed. Doing it half arsed doesn't achieve anything.
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That would mean war though
 
But it was nice to hear Diane Abbott sticking her two pence in on the news, with discussing the awful invasion of CROATIA :gross:
 
Yeah the No Fly Zone is what has been precisely ruled out - because you’re gonna have to defend that once Russia breaches it
 
Tisch said:
Are they as much of a hot mess as is being said though? Every morning I seem to wake up to more news about cities being captured. Yes it's not the total annihilation that was feared from some corners, but it's not exactly a huge shambles if that's what's happening.
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They’ve got numbers and resources on their side, but they’re also racking up thousands of casualties. I watched a video of captured Russian soldiers yesterday; they were teachers, drivers, security guards… all of them had been told they were being deployed for 5 days and would be manning checkpoints, not one of them was trained in or ready for combat.
 
I saw a video today of a Russian soldier who surrendered, phoning his mum on a Ukrainians phone and crying. The Ukranian people were giving him tea and a sandwich and comforting him.

I'm not sure how legit it is, but I want it to be real :(
 
Christian said:
Moldova and Georgia popping in their applications to join the EU this morning.

Wasn’t it meant to collapse the minute after we left?
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When you think about it, the UK departure could not have come at a more hazardous time. I know hindsight is everything but occurring in tandem with a global pandemic and then the worst military and political crisis in decades is hard cheese to say the least.

Like if we had left and then nothing remotely dramatic had happened for years, it would have been bad enough.
 
Kratz said:
When you think about it, the UK departure could not have come at a more hazardous time. I know hindsight is everything but occurring in tandem with a global pandemic and then the worst military and political crisis in decades is hard cheese to say the least.

Like if we had left and then nothing remotely dramatic had happened for years, it would have been bad enough.
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Which is why Russia interfered in the referendum. A weak EU was part of the overall strategy. But no-one has followed the UK out and we are now seen as weak, floundering and ineffectual. Bed made.
 
Very against an active war against Russia. I doubt he's going to invade somewhere else - he's having a hard enough time invading Ukraine as it is, and it's not going to get any easier if he ever gets to the point where he has to station most of his troops there just to hold Ukraine. He's going to run out of foreign currency reserves and be unable to pay his army long before he could realistically turn his attentions elsewhere.
 
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Penelope said:
Very against an active war against Russia. I doubt he's going to invade somewhere else - he's having a hard enough time invading Ukraine as it is, and it's not going to get any easier if he ever gets to the point where he has to station most of his troops there just to hold Ukraine. He's going to run out of foreign currency reserves and be unable to pay his army long before then.
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I hope and pray that you are right.
 
I hear a lot of Hitler comparisons but Hitler (very broadly speaking) had more public support behind him than Putin did, surely?
 
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Penelope said:
Very against an active war against Russia. I doubt he's going to invade somewhere else - he's having a hard enough time invading Ukraine as it is, and it's not going to get any easier if he ever gets to the point where he has to station most of his troops there just to hold Ukraine. He's going to run out of foreign currency reserves and be unable to pay his army long before then.
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I’m no expert, but I agree. I don’t see how it gets any easier for Russia from here on without a massive multiplication of forces - and that may not even be possible. Taking Kyiv may only get harder and suspect it may never be achieved.
 
I just can't see what he expects to do with Ukraine (if) he wins the initial war, short of holding 200,000 troops there permanently. They're getting a really rough ride from civilians even in supposedly captured towns.
 
I mean not to be grim, but the precedent would be to start liquidating all the men of fighting age…
 
Basically he'd probably have to start even bigger mass conscription to do it. But part of the problem he's having now is that so much of the Russian army is untrained and has low morale fighting their 'brother nation' when they haven't really been told why they're having to do it! (Donetsk/Luhansk is one thing, but domineering Kyiv?)

Plus, drafting more soldiers just exacerbates the problem of how you pay them...
 
By many accounts it seems like the Russian army is getting close to full deployment already, I guess that’s why he tried to get other ex-soviet nations to join, but without much luck
 
Possibly a stupid question but there’s a lot of talk about if you restrict money then war becomes too expensive but if you’re a corrupt government like Putin can you not essentially just print as much money as you want to fund that war?
 
They are threatening nuclear war precisely because the sanctions are extreme as fuck. They are spunking their gold and yuan reserves every morning to prop up the ruble, but they are going to run out soon. The Russian people might believe TV propaganda, but soon they won't be able to eat.
 
Bastards. Can they not imagine doing that to their own mothers/grandmothers.
 
PercyPig said:
Possibly a stupid question but there’s a lot of talk about if you restrict money then war becomes too expensive but if you’re a corrupt government like Putin can you not essentially just print as much money as you want to fund that war?
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Wouldn’t that devalue the currency though?
 
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